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Old 11-03-2003, 11:00 AM
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Why do you not believe?

Answer me this:

Do things have a right to exist?

Consider this:
If I were to evolve to the determination that your existence is affecting my ability to evolve; would it be wrong for me to kill you?

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Last edited by DragTour69XL; 11-03-2003 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 11-03-2003, 11:47 AM
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Re: Why do you not believe?

Quote:
Originally posted by DragTour69XL
Answer me this:

Do things have a right to exist?

Consider this:
If I were to evolve to the determination that your existence is affecting my ability to evolve; would it be wrong for me to kill you?
you could not do that in todays p.c. world. i'm all for it. weed out the dross.
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Old 11-03-2003, 12:07 PM
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But do see the dilemma?

If my current state of existence is evolutionary happenstance, then there is no governing force that rules over my evolvement other then natural laws of the universe.

Wow that provides some prophetic purpose to my life!

Last edited by DragTour69XL; 11-03-2003 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 11-03-2003, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DragTour69XL
But do see the dilemma?

If our current state of existence is evolutionary happenstance, then there is no 'governing force' other then natural law... as long I do not try to defy that, say jump out of the 10th floor of a building... then anything is within my evolutionary right to do.

Wow that provides some prophetic purpose to my life!
I wouldn't advise telling that to a judge! You'd be visiting a 'Funny Farm' in a heartbeat where you could 'evolve' into anything your little heart desired.
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Old 11-03-2003, 12:22 PM
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Now come on.... work with me here.... Do you see the dilemma of evolution?

If we evolved then what about the natural universe makes us have to abide by manís law?

See people should accept manís law or face fines and/or jail time, but they have to follow the natural law (just try to deify gravity at 10 stories high).

Maybe this topic is too deepÖ. Iíll wait to post further.

Last edited by DragTour69XL; 11-03-2003 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 11-03-2003, 12:28 PM
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Just like,

I've wondered this:
If Heaven is such a great place to go( better than terra firma, we are told), why do we fight like crazy, and spend all kinds of money, NOT to get there?
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Old 11-03-2003, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DragTour69XL

Maybe this topic is too deepÖ. Iíll wait to post further.
Not too deep; just the wrong Message Board for this topic!
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Old 11-03-2003, 12:32 PM
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Re: Just like,

Quote:
Originally posted by Rich_Long
I've wondered this:
If Heaven is such a great place to go( better than terra firma, we are told), why do we fight like crazy, and spend all kinds of money, NOT to get there?
This tread is not about creation it is about evolution. There is a Why do you believe thread already. I wanted the other side of the coin in this one.
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Old 11-03-2003, 01:09 PM
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Your right....the only purpose you have is to return to dust...that is untill you are born again...


I dont care, dislike me all you want...but its the truth...and if the truth is offensive to you dust surely will consume what you are..

I may make enemies because of what I believe, so be it...Im not going to deny my beliefs because its not the current trend...and Ill fight you to the end to uphold these beliefs..

Live and let live, believe what you want, but dont tell me what I must believe in...

Im only going to say one more thing, all the people in the world millions and millions, upon billions, Christianity is not the minority, no matter what the atheists want you to believe, they only want you to aid in there path into destruction...So if all your goals are is to be popular, get saved, we may loose millions, but the billions of people saved will always out weigh the people lost...

This is my beliefs, and talk till your blue, Ill not deny my Lord and Savior.........and if you dont like it? Cry me a river.....I love all people, but you must walk your own path...
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Old 11-03-2003, 01:47 PM
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2wld4u,
I'm a Christian too, I am trying to get the evolutionary faith what exactly is their belief on human existence.
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Old 11-03-2003, 04:28 PM
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Re: Why do you not believe?

Quote:
Originally posted by DragTour69XL
Answer me this:

Do things have a right to exist?

Consider this:
If I were to evolve to the determination that your existence is affecting my ability to evolve; would it be wrong for me to kill you?

Since when did 'things' have 'rights'? WTF? Since when did a 'thing' deserve any better than another 'thing'. I am confused because I fall into the 'thing' category and I think whether or not I DO exist is the real issue. "To be or not to be. . ." is the question. Not "To select a being (based on whatever you are asking), or not to select a being (based on whatever you are asking)". I think you are trying to mix politics with religious thoughts. I think the only way a 'human' can be considered useless to the rest of his race is by resorting to violence to solve an arguement.

Which brings me to your next question that I have 'considered'. Yes it is wrong to kill another human being. (My mommy and daddy told me so) What possible instance can lead you to think that another man is standing in the way of your personal growth as a human? Does he chew loud? Can't you just move to the mountains where it's nice and quiet? Do you really have to consider killing him because of this?

Survival of the fittest is not among our survival skills as a specis anymore. We grew out of that at 'cro-magnon man' stage when we learned to get along and pat the smart guy on the back because he just showed us how to make a fire to cook our meals on so we don't get sick and die. If I'm not mistaken, we are supposed to use those big squishy things in our heads to better mankind. It just doesn't seem right to go around killing the people that we've been trying to help all along now does it??

Do you have something against the 'natural laws of the universe'. They really are pretty simple if you read up on it. It even repeats itself to make sure you get the message clear rather than dangle the answers in front of you like you're some fool or something.

If you want prophetic purpose to your life, go invent something that man can USE. Don't try to figure out why. Just do it Nike Man.


MoocH
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Old 11-03-2003, 06:10 PM
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Something I recetly ran accross

Let me explain the problem science has with God." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a God believer, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The teachings says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. He considers for a moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can

cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.

Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he?

My brother was a God believer who died of cancer, even though he prayed to

Jesus to heal him. How is this God good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says.

He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er... Yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct? "

"Yes."

"So who created evil?"

Again, the student has no answer.

"Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question.

"Who created them? "

There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues. "Do you believe in God, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes,professor. I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen God?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your God?"

"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God?

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?" thundered the professor

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable,demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats.

"And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his own.

"Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat,but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than -458 degrees. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

Silence across the room! A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester.

"So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.

"You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,yes,of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester indeed!

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other students, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt theprofessor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable!

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers.

"I guess you'll have to take them on faith." The class breaks into a deadening applause

"Continuing further, Sir, when GOD created the universe he made a set of rules which governs every living organisms, categorized in his own way. For some, life is a predestined, well programmed journey of life. For others, like humans, the rules of life are a direct results of their own actions, words, thoughts or/and conducts. So, Sir, happiness, sadness, good, bad, sickness, good health, poverty and abundance, is man's own doing unto himself. The wrong and bad happenings in man's life, is nothing but the lack of righteousness in his way of life."

It pays to have faith in God than in Science...

Evil is not the opposite of Goodness...it is the absence of it...
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Old 11-03-2003, 06:58 PM
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Re: Why do you not believe?

Quote:
Originally posted by DragTour69XL
Answer me this:

Do things have a right to exist?

Consider this:
If I were to evolve to the determination that your existence is affecting my ability to evolve; would it be wrong for me to kill you?
1. i have already told you why i don't believe.

2. yes things do have a right to exist.

3. yes? it would be wrong for you to kill me, but this is something that the human race does everyday. we continue to build, pushing animals and such out of their habitats. if an animal attacks someone we kill it. some of us hunt for fun.
so from what the human race has a name for doing so much of, i guess that it wouldn't be all that wrong after all if you felt like you needed to kill me to continue to evolve.
i mean, what is the difference between my life and the life of the common rat? we both have some reason to be here. am i better than the common animal? am i going to Hell if i kill someone?the answer is NO.
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Old 11-03-2003, 06:58 PM
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Re: Something I recetly ran accross

Quote:
Originally posted by 2wld4u


"Continuing further, Sir, when GOD created the universe he made a set of rules which governs every living organisms, categorized in his own way. For some, life is a predestined, well programmed journey of life. For others, like humans, the rules of life are a direct results of their own actions, words, thoughts or/and conducts. So, Sir, happiness, sadness, good, bad, sickness, good health, poverty and abundance, is man's own doing unto himself. The wrong and bad happenings in man's life, is nothing but the lack of righteousness in his way of life."

Woah, that was a great read! That last paragraph there, is exactly what's talked about in the book Conversations With God, by Neale Donald Walsch. It helped me see alot that God hasn't punished me by "making" me sick, but this is my life and I'm here to create myself from it. Being sick I've learned that I'm not some weak, sick person, but that I'm very strong and I've overcome alot of obstacles.

Grr, I hate trying to get what's in my head into what I want to say. I can't remember enough of Conversations With God to make a good arguement either. Bleh. Anyhow....
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Old 11-04-2003, 06:46 AM
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You guys are adding too much to the thread. I am merly trying to state that in fact you can not have evolution and humanity.

Consider this:

Does an ameba have the right to live? I think most would say no
Does a monkey have the right to live? I think most would say not like a human, but we should treat them humanly.
Does a human have the tight to live? Yes of course.

So if we evolved from an ameba to a monkey to a manÖ WHEN did we obtain the right to live!
What about the natural law of the universe gives us this right? It doesn't!

GOD DOES!

If I was in that class here is how I would have answered:

"You're a God believer, aren't you, son?"

Yes

"So you believe in God?"

Yes

"Is God good?"

No, He is perfectly holy.

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

Yes

"Are you good or evil?"

I am a sinner by nature, but being born again I am made perfectly holy IN christ.

The professor grins knowingly. He considers for a moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can

cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"

Yes

"So you're good...!"

No I am a sinner by nature, that would be a specific godly action.

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.

Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he?

My brother was a God believer who died of cancer, even though he prayed to

Jesus to heal him. How is this God good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

God did not give him cancer, he just does not intervene. Bad things happen to good people. There is a host of reasons why.

He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

No, He is perfectly holy.

"Is Satan good?"

He is evil.

"Then where does Satan come from?"

God creadted him, if thatís what you mean.

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

Yes

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct? So who created evil?"

God allowed evil to exist to glorify himself. There can be no light with out darkness.

"Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

Yes

"So who created them?"

Iíve told you

"Tell me," he continues. "Do you believe in God, son?"

Iíve told you

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen God?"

Iíve never seen oxygen yet it exits correct? You can see the affects of it correct? We I see the affects of God in my live.

"Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God?

What did I just say?

"Yet you still believe in him?" thundered the professor

Why wouldnít I?

"According to the rules of empirical, testable,demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Hum, science is the study of Godís creation. His word specifically states scientific facts that man did not understand till recent years.

"And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

What did I just say...
------------------------------
The rest of what you had is pretty good.

Last edited by DragTour69XL; 11-04-2003 at 06:46 AM.
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