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  #211 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 11:32 AM
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I never said I did not lose a race . But I do have LOTS of Trophy's . Sorry have to go dust them off !
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  #212 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 11:39 AM
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Why I now use sbc

In 1990, I was building a chopped/channeled w/ cutdown 34 chevy grille and a 59 chevy dash for a buddy. Spent 100s of hours replacing the wood w/steel and using lead where I couldn't quite get it metal finished. He WANTED a 283. I told him if he wanted a Belly Button car build it himself(I was 29 years old, MOPAR, and opionated). He wore a Bow Tie and would only run GM, which was OK by me as long as it wasn't a sbc. He ended up running a 500 Cad and a 4 speed. Big work and big money, but since I was only charging him $10/hr, and probobly only charging out 1/2 my hours, I figured he could afford it. And make no mistake, this was before a rat rod was cool so we finished EVERYTHING. When it was down to plumbing, interior, and exterior paint, his wife sent a picture to Readers Rides in Street Rodder. Man, this car looked BAD ***. And the only comment I can remember from Street Rodder is that they called it a Heinz 57 car. WHAT THE HELL!!!!!!. I lost interest in the car immeidiatly and he can't quite finish it himself. IT STILL HAS NOT SEEN THE ROAD. I then got into Harleys because, well, my opinion of Hot Rodders was not good. In about 2000 I started on a 53 Stude for myself, and saw Yogi's at BTT 50's. We were talking about his cars value, much higher than I imagined and he gave me some good advise, basically stay out of the junkyard and run sbc. So finally, I gave in. I don,t want my cars to be 1/2 value because it doesn't have a sbc. So I built a hot rod Jeep for my kid with a sbc, even though I have a built up sb Mopar sitting on an engine stand (FOR ABOUT 15 YEARS). And He wanted the Mopar. And my Stude is set up for a BBC (yea, I know it's a slight deviation but I have 413 I could have put in the car). And now, I am building a 41 Ford pickup for myself with a BBC, even though I would have preferred a Cad or big Ford. So there.
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  #213 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 12:08 PM
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I can't say: "Why I have grown to hate SBC". I'd rather say I prefer old type motors in SOME cars. It is great to go to a show or cruise and see an assortment of motors.

I just got the 55 olds driveline w/ factory stick delivered for my project this week. Just got it fired today and it sounds great. 41k original mile car that was hit and then stored many years ago. I had 2 SBCs and one 396 sitting here, but a Rocket is what I wanted because the one I had at age 14 didn't work out,,,and I was ready to try another I've got a 2x2 for it and some 303 factory chrome valve covers. If I was 14, I'd be putting them on today
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  #214 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 12:39 PM
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My reason for loving the SBC is simple . Connect-ability . I have sooooo many choices for transmissions , intakes , blowers , ,etc. , etc. , etc .
My budget ( I've got 6 kids ) dictates that I use what is the most cost effective , and that does mean SBC . by a long shot . I don't need to worry about 'Year Make and Model ' when looking to fix it. I have had Fords and Mopars before , and Love them all. but SBC is my only real option , dollar wise.
If you really wanna get wild , build up the bottom end and bolt on a blower . They make anything look cool
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  #215 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TANGO
I never said I did not lose a race . But I do have LOTS of Trophy's . Sorry have to go dust them off !
In any of those races did you loose to a Mopar?

Brian
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 02:51 PM
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YES one time when my 1969 fire bird had its 350 in it . A GTX with a 440 beat me but not by much . Some of the 340 cars can give you a run for your money . I did own a 1972 demon 340 . It ran good . but I never liked that sound of the starter . Mopars were cheap to buy back then .
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  #217 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TANGO
YES one time when my 1969 fire bird had its 350 in it . A GTX with a 440 beat me but not by much . Some of the 340 cars can give you a run for your money . I did own a 1972 demon 340 . It ran good . but I never liked that sound of the starter . Mopars were cheap to buy back then .
I don't know if you are talking 350 Pontiac or 350 Chevy in that Firebird but let's say it's a Chevy for me to make my point.

So we have to assume that the guy who owns that GTX has a picture of him hole shoting you and he posts in on a forum saying his car is faster than Chevys, would that make sense?

Like I said, CLASSES that is what matters. Any in ANY drag class ALL makes and models are used, and they ALL win or loose now and then. They run within a few hundreds of a second and tenths of a mile per hour in the quarter. None are "faster" than another to speak of.

Either your Firebird was some bad ars 350 or the 440 GTX was a lame duck, they were not "equals". I had a buddy with a 72 Duster that had a 440 in it, it turned 10s all day long. Did your Firebird turn 10s?

Brian
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  #218 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 03:05 PM
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Did Your Friend Drive It To Work Every Day ?
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  #219 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 03:42 PM
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YEP, sure did! No kidding! I got a chuckle out of the question because you are right, that would be pretty crazy, but he DID. This guy is the biggest gear head I have ever met. He turned a mild mannered lady into a gear head as well. EVERY car he has ever owned (99% being SBC powered) have been "special" in some way. Even his daily drivers in later years (He is 48 now) were things like brand new SHO (back when they were Yamaha powered) which I now own, a Thunderbird Supercoupe, VW GTI that he would get up on three wheels around corners! Right now he has four Vettes, his wife drives a 2002 Z06 and races it in SCCA events. Her everyday car is a VW R32 which if you are not famillier with them turns like high 13s stone stock.

Back in those days you bet your butt he was driving that car to his job at an auto parts store everyday. And spending every dime on the car.

The whole argument about one being "faster" is kinda ridiculous. The small block Chevy is capible of producing gobs of power, that is a known no one can argue with. But head to head on the street or grudge matches at the track it is a toss of a coin across the board by the odds whether one is faster than another.

Brian
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  #220 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 03:52 PM
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By the way, this was also the kind of place where you could do that. We had a drag strip in town. I used to un-cap my headers and put slicks on my car at my shop and drive it five or six miles to the track.

Brian
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  #221 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2007, 10:37 PM
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That sounds great to have a track so close . I have to drive 60miles over the state line to Wisconsin . Every time I am scared that if I break the car . That it will cost a bit to tow it home . And most of the times have to race with added tools and jack/stand in trunk . The next time I race the Monte Carlo I think I will flat tow it . Around here we call the track the strip . You and your Friend sound like really cool racers . Keep up the work racing and building yours and others race cars .
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  #222 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2007, 08:24 AM
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Tango, my buddy still races his cars (and his wife races hers) regularly in autocross and hits the near by drag strips as well. He has no kids, so those cars and his two dogs are his kids. Me, I don't race at all anymore. The drag strip here in town was closed in 1988 (we needed another strip mall after all with the same damn stores in it that are at another strip mall only five or six miles away!) I was at the last drags there though! I raced every friggin time those last months, not it is gone and the nearest track is about 50 miles away. I have only raced there a few times.

Having it right here in town was so great. And yes my brother had to have his car towed home a few times. If I had to go as far as you are I would be getting a trailer. I miss that track like a loved one. I was down there every wendsday night at the grudge races all thru high school.

Brian
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  #223 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 05:18 PM
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What I want to know is why more people don't build AMC's? Especially the Gen II (290, 343, 390) & Gen III (304, 360, 401) motors? Lord knows they made a ton of them from '66-91.

Here's a not so well known fact, GEN III AMC HEADS FLOW EXCELLENT. They are said to flow better than pretty much anything except the "special" stuff (Hemi, hi-po big block stuff, etc.). The 360 and 401 heads came with 2.025/1.68 valves and the AMC design dogleg exhaust ports. What's more, these heads came on every AMC v8 (except 304 which had smaller valves) from 1970-1991. Imagine that, '80s AMC heads flowing better than factory hipo sbc heads?

Yeah, they designed good heads but what about the rest of the engine? AMC blocks were cast with high nickel content and had a very sturdy design. 390 and 401's came from the factory with a forged crank and rods, as well as additional block webbing. Not to mention the dizzy's in the front.

The aftermarket is warming up to these motors, there are several intake choices from Edelbrock, Indy, Offenhauser, Herman Lewis, etc. Also, there are aftermarket aluminum heads available from Edelbrock and Indy now. Heck, Indy even makes an aluminum block for AMC. HEI dizzys with the AMC shaft are widely available, as well as most any high performance part you could ask for. Including roots blowers from Dyers and BDS. And of course, they make all the fancy dress-up items you could want. Plus most of the accessories that could fail out on the road (alternator, starter, etc) can be found at any auto parts store since they cross with the big 3.

What about trannys? In AMC cars they used a 727 auto and in Jeeps they used a th400 (that could easily be converted to 2wd). I'm not sure on the specifics on what manuals fit but I'm sure there's a few to choose from.

Take any 360 from '70-91, do a mild rebuild with higher compression pistons, aftermarket intake, and bigger cam and you've got a pretty darn good running engine for not much $$. Some careful port work and you can have a real screamer. Put it in a street rod and a guarantee you'll get people scratching their heads.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that AMC engineered some pretty good engines that can make darn good power on the cheap using mostly stock components but all the aftermarket parts are there to make an absolute street beast. I don't know why more people don't use them unless they're afraid of the power.
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  #224 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 06:23 PM
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I know of a guy who ran those motors in tractor pullers back in the eighties and wooped ars with them. He had a little 304 CJ that he ran in the super stock class and was state champ. He had a Jeep pickup with a 401 that he towed the CJ with. One day he ran that in the stock class and blew away the field! He soon was regularly towing his CJ to the events compeating with both the tow vehicle and the CJ still towing the CJ back home with the truck!

Like I say, they ALL will run, if you want to. Even cheaper sometimes than the SBC. Let's face it, there is no replacement for displacement! Drop in a stone stock Pontiac 455 that you can get for a song, or one of those 390 or 401 AMCs and you can have a pretty damn fast rig with little to no mods!

Brian
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  #225 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 07:19 PM
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Here's my AMC 401 that I built. Basically all stock except pistons, cam, intake, exhaust, dizzy, and minor port work. First outing I managed 14.832@92.78 running like absolute crap. Turns out the guy I bought the carb from had drilled out the jets to #78 on both the primaries and secondaries. Holley 670 should have #65 primary and #68 secondary. That alone should tell you how crappily it was running. Replaced with Holley recommended jets and ran 14.35@95.7 according to the electronic gizmo I stick on the windshield (track closed for the year). Still stumbles off the line, I'm sure there's other stuff wrong with the carb, I've just got to find it. I think it's definitely got a solid 13 in it with the right tune.

These times may not seem impressive but you have to consider the vehicle. It's a full size '76 Wagoneer that's nearly 100% bone stock (except earlier mentioned pistons, cam, intake, exhaust, dizzy, and port work). Weighs in at 4370 lbs and runs in full time 4x4 with the aerodynamics of a brick. I just can't see a sbc with the same mods doing any better than my "obsolete" engine. I'm planning a 2wd conversion over the winter and hopefully getting under 4000 lbs. Plus little things like a higher stall converter and 4.11 gears. Hoping to get in the high 12's on slicks.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Jeep-Wagone...lip-13560.html



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