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  #286 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2012, 09:02 AM
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new heads tech and roller cams.. changed the game

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  #287 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
8-9 years ago, CC did 318 with Magnum heads that made just over 400 HP, NA, with a Comp XE268. Cam has 224º/230º @ 0.050" lift with .477"/.480" max lift.
Lemme guess, Westechs dyno?? One day, everyone will figure out that magazine article writers don't really
know WTF they're talking about...
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  #288 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2012, 05:40 PM
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Cookie Cutter Engines

That said it all thats the word I was looking for and sheep another good word. Chevys are okay they are the cars other people have.....
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  #289 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2012, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyholdback
Available? BS. Not only that, but it's not just flow, it's also combustion efficiency. That alone is 15-20 HP on a stock 350.
Just about any junkyard in the country has a Jeep Grand Wagoneer or one of it’s derivatives and the vast majority are equipped with 360s, which have the good heads. I agree that it’s not all about the flow numbers. Have you ever seen the inside of an AMC head?


Quote:
Originally Posted by whyholdback
It isn't just about aggressive lobes, it's about the ZDDP additive BS and whether or not you have to do a break-in. And the lifters reducing friction is more HP, too.
I would say that the majority of hotrod guys don’t run the cheap oil so I see this as kind of a non-issue. I’ll give into the reduced friction. Enjoy your 5 extra horsepower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whyholdback
What the heck are you talking about?
You were talking about reusing old rings and bearings which you can do in any engine… If you’re into half-assing things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whyholdback
I have the receipt from having my speedometer calibrated, and I have the gas receipts with the odometer readings written on them.



dyno-proven, with NO porting, even, you wiseacre know-it-all-who-doesn't-know-jack



True, but doing it to the build I just outlined lets you keep the stock cam and with it the 28 MPG that no other carbureted small block V8 can give you at the same cost, let alone power level, let alone easy assembly.



Not true, IF you do like I specified, and keep it from ever having ANY detonation. MSD makes a kit for this, as do others, since most detonation is not audible to the driver. But boosting 12 psi on cast pistons means ANY detonation will destroy stuff.



I have done it. Period. The end. Hush.

There's this thing called science. Wherein if a real scientist has all the info on something, they can independently duplicate it and get identical results. I haven't given you enough details, nor do I plan to ever give them to you specifically, because you lack the correct attitude of a legit scientist. But everything I claim can be independently verified. Such measures are necessary when you accomplish the things I have accomplished.
This is what makes you sound uneducated and unbelievable. All these outrageous claims and little to no proof. You sure sound like the ‘real scientist’ you speak of. So what are your accomplishments Mr. Scientist?
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  #290 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2012, 08:56 PM
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Well cool it guys.It aint the end of the world.
You know different strokes for different folks.
I went to the Dairy Queen tonite n ordered a banana split
As I sat down on the chair kinda stiff after working all day the waitress asked.
Crushed nuts?
I said ...no.. sore back!
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  #291 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2012, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topwrench
Well cool it guys.It aint the end of the world.
You know different strokes for different folks.
I went to the Dairy Queen tonite n ordered a banana split
As I sat down on the chair kinda stiff after working all day the waitress asked.
Crushed nuts?
I said ...no.. sore back!
Now thats funny Jester
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  #292 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2012, 10:21 PM
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Even if you run roller cams you still need the zinc for any high pressure metal to metal contact (rocker arm to push rod, rocker arm to valve stem, timing chains etc), not too many people mention that any more; but many people forgot this fact or they dont teach it any more! Im not in the discussion but its cool LOL Go to it guys!

Jester
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  #293 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2012, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester
Even if you run roller cams you still need the zinc for any high pressure metal to metal contact (rocker arm to push rod, rocker arm to valve stem, timing chains etc), not too many people mention that any more; but many people forgot this fact or they dont teach it any more! Im not in the discussion but its cool LOL Go to it guys!

Jester
x2..
but you see, the new oil has zinc in it.. just not enough for the lifter/lobe contact.. and the swiping action of the cam ramps..
you'll also note that the last pushrod engine ls has 1.7 rockers alowing less movement at the puchrod ball andsocket of the rocker for the same valve lift, over a 1.5 rocker..
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  #294 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2012, 06:51 AM
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The LS has factory roller trunnion rockers. The ball pivot stamped rockers load that area tremendously- another place where the earlier oil formulation helped wear.
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  #295 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2012, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
The LS has factory roller trunnion rockers. The ball pivot stamped rockers load that area tremendously- another place where the earlier oil formulation helped wear.
yup.. but I've yet to see a grooved ball and socket fail there, but have seen the pushrod wear the ara it's sits in and push through the rocker
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  #296 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2012, 11:03 AM
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Cobalt and Stitch your both right! I put that in about the zinc for the people who put roller cams in older eng's and think they dont need it any more!( Ive seen a lot of very early wear damage On parts )! People also forget We ran roller cams almost 40 years or longer ago at the tracks and stip's, and needed the zinc protection for our other parts. I dont think a lot of these younger people realize that they do need that protection on older vehicles without catalytic converters . I also use valve lash caps when I can to take up some of the load and wear from the heavier pressures and hammering from race or Hi performance valve trains!! cheaper to change valve lash caps then to have damaged valve stems or rockers

Chris
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  #297 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2012, 09:34 PM
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well, as usual, we stray.

getting back towards the topic (i think), i'm pretty sick of seeing yet another fiberglass 32 ford on an aftermarket frame being passed off as "older than 49" where the purest insist the real street rods are.

no different than opening a brand new table lamp and swearing it's a tiffany lamp because it looks like one.

i suppose it could be. tiffany..........of china
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  #298 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOOLKAR
well, as usual, we stray.

getting back towards the topic (i think), i'm pretty sick of seeing yet another fiberglass 32 ford on an aftermarket frame being passed off as "older than 49" where the purest insist the real street rods are.

no different than opening a brand new table lamp and swearing it's a tiffany lamp because it looks like one.

i suppose it could be. tiffany..........of china
oh, come on..even real henry steel, falls into that.. as everything is rebuilt..
most parts are newer than 49.. and billet everything.. reartires wider than all of the originals combined.. purest.. HA.
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  #299 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by stich626
oh, come on..even real henry steel, falls into that.. as everything is rebuilt..
most parts are newer than 49.. and billet everything.. reartires wider than all of the originals combined.. purest.. HA.

yaknow what? i agree totally with you. my point is, in all this, there is so much hyprocrisy it's pathetic. guys demanding titles that state the car is a real 1932 whatever, when it came out of the box last week and was assembled like a set of lincoln logs. (whoops....... showed my age).

like the original poster, i'd like to see a bit more originality in the hobby. last year, the guy driving down i-70 in indy in the 32 ford convertable with the chromed out flattie with 3 aces REALLY got my admiration. and yeah, i've seen some amazing cars with small block engines, but, they are pretty common. personally, i'd like to see more stuff done to inliners or v-6's, or God forbid, diesels.

i will say this. i'm not down on the smallblock at all. hell, i own 2 of them in my daily drivers. the popularity of those engines is a pretty good testiment to the superior engineering, ease to find parts, and simplistic and functional approach to engineering. they were, and are, in my opinion one of the best all around engines ever made. i simply enjoy looking a different things, learning by looking and asking questions, and getting different ideas. some of us are pretty amazing with the stuff we come up with, and to me, that's a big part of the fun of the hobby.

2 quick little stories. i drove my 51 g.m.c. cabover to work a few years ago. i was working the hot rod nats, and looking forward to a fun day. as i start through the gate, this guy stops me and asks what year my truck is, and i tell him "it's a 51". he tells me, "you can't come in". i ask him if it's ok for me to go to work that day and show him my i.d. badge (that i had already shown to another gate worker), and the guy says "i suppose". i drove away thinking "he supposes? the son of a ****** supposes"? i spent part of the day driving around looking at plastic and fiberglass everything and thought what a bunch of frauds were running the thing. talked to a guy that had a beautiful cabover chevy hauler that was completely tricked out and a great piece of engineering and artistry. helluva nice guy, and i spent time asking and learning and appreciating the time, and money he spent on the building of tghe truck. i have a great deal of respect for the workmanship, and originality he showed. a super good job. when i asked him how he got in with 53 body, he freaked out a bit and told me "don't say that too loud". yeah, he knew, but didn't want to get tossed out. to my mind, nomatter what, he shouldn't have been anyway. the sticker on the window said "49"

story number 2. a few years back i was asked to drive one of the company trucks and trailers to englishtown for the x-plode event. i hadn't worked one of those, had some time, and decided to do it. most every car there was a v-6 or inline, the things hauled *****, and the guys there reminded me of, well, me, when i was young. people helping people and hanging out, guys who competed with each other but were still friends, a family atmosphere, and alot of fun. very few fancy haulers, but alot of trailers pulled by pickup trucks. it was the most fun i've had in awhile. it was, to me, sort of like the era where most of us came from, and represents the purest part of the sport.

take what you can afford, build it as good as you can, be proud of it (including the rust spots), and simply have fun. to me at least, it's not about a bunch of over the hill yuppies thowing massive amounts of cash into a machine they barely have touched except for the ignition key, and expecting ooohs and ahhhs, and being mad because they didn't win yet another trophy.

the "trophy" is the feeling i get when i'm tooling around in my machine. mine. exactly like nobody elses, and fun just to get out and tool around in. the last gasp of an old man who lived during the best part of automotive history, misses it, and tries to hang on to some part of his past.

in case some of you forgot. back when many of us were kids, a studebaker commander was fair game for "fixing up" if that's all we had, and nobody wanted a 4 door car of any make. we ran corvairs, and every 289 2 barrel single point blue ford engine was a "hypo", even though most of us never saw the gold dual point 4 barrel version, yet somehow everything was ok to cruise in on saturday night, or stuff the trunk to sneak into the drive in movies.


part of me is concerned that after all us white hairs are gone, the biggest hot rod event in the nation will be held in a mc donald's parking lot and to a degree, it's our own fault. there's 2 generations now that have no clue how an engine works, how to do body work, and to those kids, customizing a car means adding stick on vinal decals and a fart can muffler. we did a lousy job of teaching them, and including them into our hobby. instead, we chose to make it an exclusive club, members only, and nobody else need apply. after us, who will save the old iron? how many young people today will know the sound of a fine tuned v-8 in a car built with craftsmanship and love and saved from the crusher to live a few more years? how many kids will even SEE a 389 pontiac, 442 olds, 572 caddy, amc hornet, injected 283 horse 283, corvair spyder, or hemi engine? how many kids today will ever see a factory 2 4 barrel smallblock, or cross ram 413? especially when it's owned by some snotty, holier than thou pr!ck who is always right nomatter what, and has the personality of a foul tempered *******. (look at some of the posters here if you can't see what i mean). part of our function SHOULD be to educate when we can, help where we can, and offer support and ideas where we can to help the next generation learn a craft that is slowly going away. in return, i suppose they can teach us about computers and fuel infection. (yeah, i spelled that right).

so yeah, i understand the intent and thoughts of the original post. it makes sense if you really take the time to think about. i think the hobby is in decine, and fewer real gear heads are surviving. look guys. we are part of the history of a nation. apparently, very few of us are being made these days, and we are all we have and we are getting older. every day the scrap yards consume more and more of the things we loved as kids, and those things won't be coming back. what we save, repair, alter, customize, and proudly drive, is not only iron and steel. it's part of us. and last time i looked, we are all different, and that difference once made us pretty special i think.

just my long winded opinion. your mileage may vary.
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  #300 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012, 09:44 AM
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"part of me is concerned that after all us white hairs are gone, the biggest hot rod event in the nation will be held in a mc donald's parking lot and to a degree, it's our own fault. there's 2 generations now that have no clue how an engine works, how to do body work, and to those kids, customizing a car means adding stick on vinal decals and a fart can muffler. we did a lousy job of teaching them, and including them into our hobby. instead, we chose to make it an exclusive club, members only, and nobody else need apply. after us, who will save the old iron? how many young people today will know the sound of a fine tuned v-8 in a car built with craftsmanship and love and saved from the crusher to live a few more years? how many kids will even SEE a 389 pontiac, 442 olds, 572 caddy, amc hornet, injected 283 horse 283, corvair spyder, or hemi engine? how many kids today will ever see a factory 2 4 barrel smallblock, or cross ram 413? especially when it's owned by some snotty, holier than thou pr!ck who is always right nomatter what, and has the personality of a foul tempered *******. (look at some of the posters here if you can't see what i mean). part of our function SHOULD be to educate when we can, help where we can, and offer support and ideas where we can to help the next generation learn a craft that is slowly going away. in return, i suppose they can teach us about computers and fuel infection. (yeah, i spelled that right).

so yeah, i understand the intent and thoughts of the original post. it makes sense if you really take the time to think about. i think the hobby is in decine, and fewer real gear heads are surviving. look guys. we are part of the history of a nation. apparently, very few of us are being made these days, and we are all we have and we are getting older. every day the scrap yards consume more and more of the things we loved as kids, and those things won't be coming back. what we save, repair, alter, customize, and proudly drive, is not only iron and steel. it's part of us. and last time i looked, we are all different, and that difference once made us pretty special i think.

just my long winded opinion. your mileage may vary.""


yes yes,, the car hobby, is very very clickie.. very off putting.. when one generation only has so much towork with.. like today when they hop up imports.. or 80's cars.. and get no love from the roddes or the muscle car guys.. god forbid you show up at a test n' tune night..
I think the rat rod movement did two things.. that help younger gen's get out there and into the hobby..
1) don't let perfect get in the way of done..
this alone has opened many doors that just a few years ago. people would laugh at your car as they walked by at a show or cruise
2)showed that anything can be kool..

for a good 30 years, hobby cars had to be detailed,clean, pretty, and all flash..this movement changed the rules, and really brought hot roding back to where it started.. junkyard builds.. ya. a well built car is still kool if you can afford that.. this allows people that couldn't afford to build a car that not get laughed at.. back into the fold.. saving alot of old tin that would've never ever been used buy the guys 10 yers ago..
I'll bet that there will be more people in the hobby now that can fab up stuff, weld, etc.. because it didn't need to be perfect..
now if that trend moves to the newer tin (60-80) more will be able to build and enjoy the hobby, without feeling like an outcast..
today anything goes... just like it did way before my time..
and it's about dam time.
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