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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2012, 03:30 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Today the air pressure is very important with waterborne. I have next to zero experience with it but hanging around the shop I see how the air pressure is very important. The other day the painter showed me how he made a spray out divided into about 5 sections simply by changing the air pressure a couple of pounds, we are talking 2 lbs difference changed the color a lot!

Brian

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2012, 03:54 PM
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Your so right about water born, some manufacturers have different pressures for different guns, PPG's Envirobase also need an orientation coat for metallic's and pearls at about 1/2 the pressure you apply the paint at for coverage...
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:16 PM
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"I have a guy I work with who has beached about the paint not matching when he has sprayed a spray out card that DID match. What do you say to a guy like this? I calmly asked, "How could the spray out card match and the paint on the car doesn't"? SOMETHING changed between the spray out card and the car, SOMETHING changed. He honestly believed it was the paint that somehow changed, I am not making this up! "

Did he wait any length of time between the spray-out card and spraying the panel. Bet you dollars-to-doughnuts it settled out in the gun, OOPS. Especially with whites, the toners all have a different specific weights to them, mix the paint ready to spray and leave it sit in a mixing cup for 15 min. and see if it settles with the toners on top. With a gravity feed gun you'll be spraying pure white toner first, with a siphon feed gun you'll be spraying color toners first. With pressure feed you have to deal with the length of the hose.

With color matching EVERYTHING matters.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldBodyman View Post
"I have a guy I work with who has beached about the paint not matching when he has sprayed a spray out card that DID match. What do you say to a guy like this? I calmly asked, "How could the spray out card match and the paint on the car doesn't"? SOMETHING changed between the spray out card and the car, SOMETHING changed. He honestly believed it was the paint that somehow changed, I am not making this up! "

Did he wait any length of time between the spray-out card and spraying the panel. Bet you dollars-to-doughnuts it settled out in the gun, OOPS. Especially with whites, the toners all have a different specific weights to them, mix the paint ready to spray and leave it sit in a mixing cup for 15 min. and see if it settles with the toners on top. With a gravity feed gun you'll be spraying pure white toner first, with a siphon feed gun you'll be spraying color toners first. With pressure feed you have to deal with the length of the hose.

With color matching EVERYTHING matters.
Your right, in the days that I went from shop to shop trying to solve basic paint and or color issues, a pattern quickly emerged. It seemed as though certain shops would have a multitude of paint problems, while another shop down the street never had these issues with the same product. Most paint problems are human error, a good painter solves his or her own problems. The painter that I never heard a complaint from and put out a high volume and quality of work was a painter in the true definition of the word painter, the ones that always had a situation that they deemed to be a paint problem blaming product in my mind where applicators. Paint is paint, they all work, some may have a more user friendly clear or a better sanding primer whatever, real painters solves their issues in the both and not by pointing fingers.

Ray
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2012, 09:38 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldBodyman View Post
"I have a guy I work with who has beached about the paint not matching when he has sprayed a spray out card that DID match. What do you say to a guy like this? I calmly asked, "How could the spray out card match and the paint on the car doesn't"? SOMETHING changed between the spray out card and the car, SOMETHING changed. He honestly believed it was the paint that somehow changed, I am not making this up! "

Did he wait any length of time between the spray-out card and spraying the panel. Bet you dollars-to-doughnuts it settled out in the gun, OOPS. Especially with whites, the toners all have a different specific weights to them, mix the paint ready to spray and leave it sit in a mixing cup for 15 min. and see if it settles with the toners on top. With a gravity feed gun you'll be spraying pure white toner first, with a siphon feed gun you'll be spraying color toners first. With pressure feed you have to deal with the length of the hose.

With color matching EVERYTHING matters.
That could be, and again, operator error and NOT the paint. When you see something like that it is pretty simple, it's something you are doing and not the paint. But he would always blame the paint.

Brian
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Your right, in the days that I went from shop to shop trying to solve basic paint and or color issues, a pattern quickly emerged. It seemed as though certain shops would have a multitude of paint problems, while another shop down the street never had these issues with the same product. Most paint problems are human error, a good painter solves his or her own problems. The painter that I never heard a complaint from and put out a high volume and quality of work was a painter in the true definition of the word painter, the ones that always had a situation that they deemed to be a paint problem blaming product in my mind where applicators. Paint is paint, they all work, some may have a more user friendly clear or a better sanding primer whatever, real painters solves their issues in the both and not by pointing fingers.

Ray
It's so funny how I remember the same thing, "That paint sucks" and you have shops all over using it without a hitch. Which is also the hard part, so does every other paint, they ALL work, there is nothing you are going to walk in there with and knock them dead with, not unless their supplier has no tech help and they are working with the wrong products. You can walk in there with the right products to make their job easier and they think it's all your brand, yet if their rep had went in with the right stuff which they have, he would still have the account. But you have nothing that the other companies don't have, that is the first and hardest thing to learn as a rep.

Brian
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
It's so funny how I remember the same thing, "That paint sucks" and you have shops all over using it without a hitch. Which is also the hard part, so does every other paint, they ALL work, there is nothing you are going to walk in there with and knock them dead with, not unless their supplier has no tech help and they are working with the wrong products. You can walk in there with the right products to make their job easier and they think it's all your brand, yet if their rep had went in with the right stuff which they have, he would still have the account. But you have nothing that the other companies don't have, that is the first and hardest thing to learn as a rep.

Brian
The "that paint sucks" line, I remember hearing it all to well. I was with ICI at the time when a painter told me that our clear sucked and Dupont was better and went on and on for weeks on end. He would say things like I can spot an ICI job a mile away. Finally I had enough and brought three cars that had recently been painted to this guys shop...I asked him to tell me which car had been painted with Dupont, which with ICI and which with BASF...He couldn't do it, got everyone wrong...He told me he was embarrassed, I told him not to be, and that I couldn't tell either.

I used to love when the competition would come in and rip my product apart...I didn't have to say anything, they did my work for me. LOL. The worst thing a rep can do is claim their product is superior because very often, maybe a few years down the road, they are repping for the product they where ripping apart earlier. So true about learning this as a rep, the one problem is that when they bring in a new rep, they go to propaganda school to learn about the product and they buy in to hard...and sometimes to long. I tried to sell service and knowledge before I sold product.

Ray
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2012, 11:07 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
I tried to sell service and knowledge before I sold product.

Ray
Absolutely

Brian
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 06:03 AM
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I thought every painter did this BUTTTTT.....When I mix my formula, after the binder I'll stert adding the toners in a clock wise pattern so WHEN (not if ) I add to much of one I can easily pull some out with a clean paint stick just put the stick in the spot touching only that one toner and it pulls out about three drops each time....
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:06 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
I thought every painter did this BUTTTTT.....When I mix my formula, after the binder I'll stert adding the toners in a clock wise pattern so WHEN (not if ) I add to much of one I can easily pull some out with a clean paint stick just put the stick in the spot touching only that one toner and it pulls out about three drops each time....
BRILLIANT! I have never done such a thing and it makes WAY too much sense to have never done it, holy crap. BRILLIANT DBM!

Brian
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:51 AM
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Mixing Paint........

Hi,back when i was painting yachts,IMRON was the favorite brand,i used to buy 22 gallons (or so)at a time,took a NEW plastic garbage can,washed it with DAWN,2 or 3 times,dried it out good,then using IMRON reducer,cleaned it 2 more times,Changing rags often,then dumped ALL 22 gallons in the garbage can,stirred it good,to make sure all paint was the same color,(we called this bucketing) then pulled out 2 gallons at a time into my 2 1/2 gallon pressure pot,then put the garbage can lid (that i also did a cleaning job on,) back on,then proceeded to paint, never had a Boo Boo...IF you screw up a $40,000 paint job,you are DEFINATELY going to bite the pipe... (i only catalized the imron,as i was refilling my pressure pot,)
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:33 AM
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This thread has been really good. If I have to go back and buy more paint to work on a project I do two things. First compare the new can with any of the original for color match. Secondly I use the new paint for the first coats and try to use the left over original for the final coats to assure color match.

John L

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Old 11-29-2012, 05:09 AM
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I always pour my gallons off into quart cans when
painting in pieces. If you keep taking from the top of a gallon can
little by little, the last will be different (especially metallics)
no matter how well you stir it.
Stirring well at first and pouring into separate qt cans
really keeps it more consistent and easier to use.
I even pour my primers into qt cans, just easier to work with
and it keeps better for me since I do so many "small jobs".
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:05 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Originally Posted by jcclark View Post
I always pour my gallons off into quart cans when
painting in pieces. If you keep taking from the top of a gallon can
little by little, the last will be different (especially metallics)
no matter how well you stir it.
Stirring well at first and pouring into separate qt cans
really keeps it more consistent and easier to use.
I even pour my primers into qt cans, just easier to work with
and it keeps better for me since I do so many "small jobs".
That's a great way to do it.

Brian
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