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-   -   Wideband afr, any preferences on brand? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/wideband-afr-any-preferences-brand-205325.html)

bubbahotep 09-12-2011 11:35 AM

Wideband afr, any preferences on brand?
 
I'm looking at a few wideband (one sensor) meters and wondering who's using what brand? Plx has a pretty one , glowshift has one that claims good readings. It's for a carb'd 383, recordings are not necessary. Likely it will be in the car for 15 years or more.

TommyK 09-12-2011 12:55 PM

If you aren't going to data log AEM is hard to beat.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/wideba...fuel-gauge-25/

bubbahotep 09-12-2011 02:07 PM

I was looking at that one too, price is reasonable

68NovaSS 09-12-2011 02:13 PM

Innovate is the one I use, the dual channel, LM-2 is what I have. Comes with adapters for permanent header installation, along with bung plugs. I also bought two remote tail pipe sensors. The whole kit comes with a padded carrying case.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

Overdriv 09-12-2011 04:48 PM

I have the inovate LC-1 and one of their G4 gauges, it works fine. Customer support is lacking, but they do have a user forum with some guys that are knowledgeable about the products.

bubbahotep 09-12-2011 05:17 PM

The LM2 I just saw at a car show in a car. I like the features but, Im sorry, its ugly as sin.

The LC1 is nice, has a simple basic layout

Except for the LM2, can I assume that all meters (from all manufacturers) are ok for use 2 days a week, 52 weeks a year? Something thats part of the gauge cluster? Or are they going to cook themselves with that much use? If I cant have a gauge thats "on" and functioning all the time I might opt for the LM2

TommyK 09-13-2011 06:18 AM

I was originally going to purchase the innovate system but got scared off by all the problems posted on their forum. There is no doubt when working correctly theirs is the superior product. For my purposes the AEM allowed me to get my carb dialed in pretty well for minimal investment. It was easy to install and has worked flawlessly. Although without logged data perhaps I don't know what I am missing.

AEM has a forum as well but I have not spent any time on it. I guess my next step will be to see what I have to do to be able to data log with the AEM.

Overdriv 09-13-2011 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbahotep
The LM2 I just saw at a car show in a car. I like the features but, Im sorry, its ugly as sin.

The LC1 is nice, has a simple basic layout

Except for the LM2, can I assume that all meters (from all manufacturers) are ok for use 2 days a week, 52 weeks a year? Something thats part of the gauge cluster? Or are they going to cook themselves with that much use? If I cant have a gauge thats "on" and functioning all the time I might opt for the LM2

The LC-1 in my S10 runs all the time the engine is running. In fact, all O2 sensors must be powered up when ever the engine runs.

Problems with the LC-1 are mostly installation. If you pay close attention to the instructions, you'll have no problems.

I also have the LM2. It is more a diagnostic/tuning tool than a permanent install O2 meter, but it can be and is in many applications, such as race cars etc.

Innovates forum is full of gloom and doom but remember, people only go there to find help when having trouble, seldom to tell everyone how good the device is working. Don't take this wrong, I'm not defending Innovate in any way, the deserve all the ragging they get.

Data logging is a very handy tuning aid, probably worth the price of admission.

bubbahotep 09-13-2011 10:38 AM

After reading from the suggestions above, the LM2 is an insanely great deal. Datalogger and obd2 in one unit but there's no gauge (can be added)

The Aem I'm probably going with but to add a data logger is more than double the device alone and 3x the LM2 Price overall. Still far less than thousands of years ago

I've never had an afr in 20+ years so I'll start with just the gauge. All the gauges suggested have data outputs so a logger can be added someday. My tune has to be better than it is. I've got some parts for my secondary side that fbird suggested so that's why I wanted an afr meter. I can't imagine that I'd get more than a few extra horses with a datalogger anyway

bubbahotep 09-18-2011 08:03 PM

I got the AEM wideband installed and didnt want to make another post with basic questions.

I drove the car today, couldnt do any WOT, but I got on it pretty hard and had the speedo pinned in no time (85mph tops). Without a datalogger I watched the display to memorize the average readings

I idle in gear at 13.5 at about 1000 rpm on the 383 stroker. A heavy acceleration from a standstill or rolling at 20mph gives me a solid 12.2-12.5 average reading. Thats with the trans dropping down a gear (auto trans) and the secondaries opening. It seems to stay about 12.2 as it shifts up through the gears.

Cruise in 4th gear at 2500-3000rpm is 15.8 with no load at all (My understanding is that this is way lean)

Where Im wrong correct me but I thought I need 12.5-13 overall as a good AFR. So at cruise Im too lean, I have holley 73 primary jets and was going to increase those and then readjust my idle screws accordingly?? My existing powervalve is a 5.5 based on my 11hg idle vacuum, its a vac secondary carb with the yellow spring. 3310-c carb

Below is my original 86 O2 sensor which has been plugging the bung hole since the early 90's. I couldnt get this one to work for some reason.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5136/img4094j.th.jpg

bentwings 09-18-2011 10:24 PM

I have Innovate in my car permanent install with a DB gage. Worked right out of the box. Be very careful with the grounds. follow the instructions. My O2 sensor failed at about 12k miles. I finally replaced it and all is well again. These are just a Bosch VW part available at any big auto parts store for about $60. Plan on replacing it about every 500 hours or a bit less.

Remember the problems in the forums don't really give a cross section of the real world. only a very small percentage.

The Wideband will definitely get you in the ballpark but how efficient the motor is has some effect. Burns oil, leaky valve guides, lots of blow by and poorly sealed ex pipes all have an effect on how well the WB reports and lives.

Innovate also offers even better data logging with additional products.

TommyK 09-19-2011 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbahotep

Cruise in 4th gear at 2500-3000rpm is 15.8 with no load at all (My understanding is that this is way lean)

Where Im wrong correct me but I thought I need 12.5-13 overall as a good AFR. So at cruise Im too lean, I have holley 73 primary jets and was going to increase those and then readjust my idle screws accordingly?? My existing powervalve is a 5.5 based on my 11hg idle vacuum, its a vac secondary carb with the yellow spring. 3310-c carb


http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5136/img4094j.th.jpg

Disclaimer: I am not an expert

12.5-13 is not a good AFR for anything in between the smallest throttle openings and WOT. Your 15.8 at level road cruise is actually almost ideal. It is near the AFR where the most power from the least fuel is found. This produces the best fuel economy. Between 10% and 60-70% of load whatever the leanest AFR which can be run without surging or popping is correct. The fuel curve if plotted on a graph would look like a bell with 12.5-13 on each and and 16.5 in the middle.

bubbahotep 09-19-2011 06:33 AM

Bentwings, 500 hours sounds like a rip off to me. Lol . On a daily driver using the same sensor I'd get 5-10 years if I'm lucky. I dont see why we'd get much less???

Tommyk, my info came from 3 hot rodding magazines and they all had similar numbers. Maybe I misread them or maybe they're wrong? I will post links. I know 14.7 is the magic number but all articles said that 12.5-13.0 was ideal for mild cam readings WOT and acceleration and 14.7 cruise. I trust this website over anything I read elsewhere which is why I ask

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti..._equation.aspx

TommyK 09-19-2011 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbahotep
Bentwings, 500 hours sounds like a rip off to me. Lol . On a daily driver using the same sensor I'd get 5-10 years if I'm lucky. I dont see why we'd get much less???

Tommyk, my info came from 3 hot rodding magazines and they all had similar numbers. Maybe I misread them or maybe they're wrong? I will post links. I know 14.7 is the magic number but all articles said that 12.5-13.0 was ideal for mild cam readings WOT and acceleration and 14.7 cruise. I trust this website over anything I read elsewhere which is why I ask

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti..._equation.aspx

14.7/1 is only the magic number in a theoretical sense. Rich vs lean can only be viewed in the context of what a given engine needs /wants at a particular point of load and throttle opening.

bubbahotep 09-19-2011 09:18 AM

Based on what you're saying I'm almOst dead on. Accelerations are in the 12s, cruise is on the lean side. I tuned my carb based on info mainly from this site, a vac gauge, rpm. I've done nothing to the carb after installing the AEM.


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