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Old 09-21-2004, 12:32 AM
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Wieand 144 or 177 experiences

So here's the deal, I can't decide which blower is best for me. I want the 177 but I've seen some pretty good deals on used 144's. This will be going on a street car, although not a daily driver. It will be on a SBC with dished forged pistons at 8:5:1. Plan on a forced induction cam and upgrading my current mallory ignition to a multi-spark unit. This motor was previously running a single turbo set-up around 7psi. I wan't to be able to run pump gas as well, the car may see the strip ocassoinaly but mostly street. My concern with the 144 is that I will eventually feel that it is not enough and want to upgrade. I feel that the 6-71 is too excessive and costly for me.

So most importantly I would like to hear from those with experience with either of the two units or another. I would like to know how steetable they are. For example is it excesive to the point where you would see more benefit from a smaller blower and its unresponsive. From what I've read its better to a larger blower and have it spin slower for heat reasons. Also I would like this motor to put out atleast 400+ crank hp. I feel that my 5.7L should put out more than my little 3.0L.

By the way I searched for sometime and didn't find the answer I was looking for. However I did see many users with blown cars so.... please help me out.

-Elliott

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Old 09-21-2004, 03:52 PM
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Go to the www.egroups.com and get in the supercharge club. Not a ton of actuion, but good knowledgeable people. HG
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Old 09-21-2004, 06:08 PM
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For a totally streetable blower on a 350" engine, I would go with the 144. It was more or less designed around a 350. With a base 8.5:1 compression and an added 6lbs of boost supplied with the stock pullies, you will have around (depending on the cam and carb) a 12:1 dynamic compression ratio; right at the edge of what you can get by with pump gas...

The 144 CAN produce up to 10psi on a 350" engine...More power is just a pulley swap away...But remember your head gaskets and rotating assembly will have to step it up as well!!!
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:41 PM
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I am running a 142 weiand and I love it. It really woke up my small block. I have had it for 2 months or so, and I do already want more, but not much as the rear end of the truck is already hard to keep planted. I am going to go to lower compression forged pistons, blower cam etc to get some more power. I am running an MSD 6AL box with the boost retard module, and I would highly reccomend you do the same. The boost retard is a life saver, keeping detonation at bay. It is very streetable, and seems extremely reliable so far. I know the blower can do a lot more than it is as it is only puishing 4 1/2 psi of boost. The big thing with this blower is it is near silent when you arnt on it, except for a little bit of gear noise at idle. But when you stomp on it, it is this sweet blower whine, the person you blow by getting on the freeway will not know what hit them(especially when it is a 1969 chevy c-10 that hasnt had any body work done yet. )If you have any specific questions, let me know. I installed, set up, and tuned this whole set up and it was challenging for my first blower install, but lots of fun.

Subman
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Old 09-22-2004, 06:59 AM
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A good thing to note is that the 142's are C.A.R.B. certifited 50 state street legal an the 177's are not. If you live in a state with strict emissions like CA or NJ, that's something to look at.
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Old 09-22-2004, 08:37 AM
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<---------------
B&M 144. I'm using the larger snout pullet (turns the blower slower). 510 HP on the engine dyno. With an 1800 lb. car you better have the wheels pointed straight. It's quick and a lot of fun.

Norm.
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Old 09-22-2004, 11:39 PM
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I am in CA, but it's going on a 56 Chevy .... so I'm smog exempt, I can do whatever I please . California Air Research Board can kiss my a@# in this case.

I had another question for you guys with regaurds to tuning. I'm familiar with the process of tuning a fuel injected turbo car, but this would be a bit different. There's no knock sensor, O2 sensors, injector duty cycle, or anything for reference. Well except your ears. I know on turbo cars EGTs are used to indicate detonation by high temps. Anyone tune using supercharged carberated cars using EGT's for reference? I know MSD makes a knock box too.

I know that you can hear detnation most of the time, I'm just concerned since my car is rather loud. BTW I should have access to a dyno for tuning hopefully.

As far as blower choice, I'm still up in the air about. I sounds like you guys are really happy with your 144s and 142s.

bud-23 is the 510HP a desktop dyno or an actual dyno numbers? How's you motor set up? CR, heads, cam, etc...

subman17 I'd like to run the MSD box with the boost retard. Right now I'm leaning towards mallory since I have unilight dist right now and I'm really happy with it. I was looking into the MSD units is the boost retard fixed or does it take an input from the manifold and make corrections based upon actual boost levels? Also is it just a regular 6AL box or is it a seperate unit that works in conjunction with the 6-AL?

One last thing can you guys run on pump cas alright? I can only realisticallly get 91 octane at the pump here in CA.

thank you everyone,
Elliott
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Old 09-23-2004, 07:00 AM
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Your ability to run on pump gas all comes down to your static CR and the amount of boost you are running. There is a table that shows you all this on Holley's website. It's very informitive.

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...fo/SCTech.html
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Old 09-23-2004, 12:28 PM
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Odium thanks for the link looks like I "should" be able run about 7psi. Anyone use alcohol or propane injection to raise octane?
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Old 09-23-2004, 01:14 PM
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Both MSD and Crane make units that will work in conjuction with a MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensor and retard your timing based on indicated boost. The more boost you have going . . . the more it retards it (though you set the specification for how many degrees vs. how many lbs of boost).

I believe both MSD and cranes units are similar in cost.
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:37 PM
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I suppose this is the one of the units your talking about:

CRN-6000-6425 $117.99 + Map sensor $57.95


MSD $165.88 complete, works with regular coil no box needed


Looks like mallory has one too $239.95 + accessories... a bit pricey


These are from Summit, I like how the MSD unit is packaged as a complete kit and doesn't require another box. Looks like if you want to run an MSD 6AL box you need to run a MSD-8762 or MSD-8962. Anyone have a preferences or experiences with the above units?

-Elliott

One mor question for those with the 144 or 142 blowers, can you hold consistant boost all the way to 5-6k with out it dropping off? Holding around 7psi.
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Old 09-23-2004, 05:45 PM
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I hold 4 1/2 or 5 lbs all the way up as long as my foot is in it. The boost retard box is in addition to the regular MSD box, it references boost pressure and retards the timing 0-3 degrees per pound of boost, up to a max of 15 degrees. You have a knob on the dash taht controls the amount of retard per pound, and a setting on the box itself for when the retard comes in. I am running 91 octane gas, my only problem right now is that if my engine temp goes over 190, it will ping is I get on it. Electric fans next week should cure that problem. I am running a 160 degree stat, and an edelbrock victor water pump, and a 4 core copper radiator. It only gets that hot sitting for extended periods of time in drive.

I tuned my truck entirely by ear, over 40 series flows, no cats, dual pipes. Of course I used a timing light, and read the plugs often. I have been running unchanged for 5000 miles with no problems, Dyno run soon to come.
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Old 09-23-2004, 07:05 PM
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Running less than 10psi you should have no problems on pump gas. As a matter of fact, you could make it without the BTM if you are keeping boost low but it would be better with. I would go with the larger unit so you have room to grow, but that is just me.

Chris
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Old 09-23-2004, 10:44 PM
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subman17 I just noticed your in SanJose, I'm from Martinez next Walnut Creek/Pleasan HIll. Maybe once I get this thing going you can help me tune it or give me some tips. So the blower is capable of holding more than 4.5~5lbs of boost, thats just what your running currently.

TurboS10 thanks, I run 14.5psi on my Stealth but it's turbo has EFI and aluminum heads which my chevy does not. I'm just kind of uneasy about tuning without some of the tools that I'm used to.

Right now I'm looking to pick up a 142, I'm assuming that it should enough for my application. From what I've gathered the 177 would be more ideal if I were going to be running higher RPM. I'll be happy if I can get 400rwhp, think this is possible on pump gas with the Weiand142 with blower pistons, 8:5:1 CR, blower cam, heads that breath, and headers?
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Old 09-23-2004, 11:13 PM
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As stupid as it may sound I was actually looking into a little B&M blower for my motorhome. It's a 360 Dodge engine, which would be the only setback?
If a manifold is NOT made for a small block Dodge I guess I could make one easily enough? But is the power / heat / mileage/ longevity good enough with these blowers to make it a viable project?
The motorhome is 350 horsepower, big hydraulic roller "street strip"ish type engine, wiith 4.10 gears and it weighs 6500 pounds.
Would a B&M blower be decent, or a paxton style set-up a little better, or?

Any ideas anybody? Anybody used a B&M blower on a HEAVY vehicle before?
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