Wild cooling ideas - thoughts? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 12:01 PM
'67Pony's Avatar
Dancin' to Heavens Door
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 47
Posts: 92
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wild cooling ideas - thoughts?

Hey folks~

Been taking a break from it for a while..... Takes a lot to put a monster car together.

1967 Mustang. 429 that barley fits and has chronic cooling issues, I know why just struggling with ways to fix it. I have a 2 core aluminum radiator with a no name brand electric fan on the outside pushing air through. Having only 3/4" between the water pump pulley and the radiator - it was my only option. Also, the engine takes up the entire eng. compartment and I think that is part of the problem in that there is no room for air to circulate. The fan works well, and there is plenty of water circulation so my thoughts are that its just not enough...

anyway, on to the idea and question;

I was thinking about running some 1/2 or 3/4 (whatever size is appropriate) lines from the heater core in/out back to the rear of the car and into a cannister/tank of some sort...maybe an aluminum container with bleeders at the uppermost point for bleeding air out. Maybe drop another 5-10 gallons of water/antifreeze into the system and push it some distance from the engine and back. I am in need of some weight in the rear anyway and could probably use to give up a horse or two doing this.

Has anybody ever tried something like this? Does the water pump have what it would take to push water to the rear of the car and back? It would basically be level and wouldn't take much.

TIA
GB~

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 12:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: thunder bay , ontario
Age: 29
Posts: 133
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i was going to sugest what you said....ive never heard of anyone doing that yet but i think it sounds like a good idea,
if it doesnt have enough power to push it through the car you could always invest in a electric waterpump and mount it to the frame half way....but im not to shure....that could work oposite and mess one of the pumps up...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 12:56 PM
Dave E Shank's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Fishers, Indiana
Age: 70
Posts: 676
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
HEY 67: I can relate to your problem I have a 350SBC in a 38 Lafayette street rod and have had heat problems from day one. I am presently running an aluminum radiator, mechanical fan with aux. electric pushing in front. I get hot in slow moving traffic BUT as soon as I get moving temperature will drop as fast as it went up. That is telling me that there is too much heat in engine compartment for slow air flow to disipate. I have heard of old time hot rodders running heater hose the length of the chassis to add capacity. If problem is air flow I am not sure more water is the answer?? I have noticed that if I turn on heater & fan in real heavy traffic it does help but that is last resort during Indiana summers. I guess my gut feeling would be to try every way possible to get more air flow in and heat out. But trying more water capacity could be an easy experiment with a long length of hose. Please keep us posted as I would be interested in what you find.......DAVE
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 01:19 PM
TooMany2count's Avatar
A Half Crippled Old SOB....
 
Last wiki edit: GM RPO build codes Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cahokia,IL..... Donate Blood Products & Sign your DONORS CARD
Posts: 807
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Wild cooling ideas - thoughts?

Quote:
Originally posted by '67Pony


I have a 2 core aluminum radiator
[COLOR=red]that in itself may be your problem, w/that size of an engine in that confind compartment I would try to put at least a 3core or even better a 4core radiator in it and use the fan on the inside of the radiator along w/a fan shroud .[/COLOR]



I was thinking about running some 1/2 or 3/4 (whatever size is appropriate) lines from the heater core in/out back to the rear of the car and into a cannister/tank of some sort...maybe an aluminum container with bleeders at the uppermost point for bleeding air out. Maybe drop another 5-10 gallons of water/antifreeze into the system and push it some distance from the engine and back. I am in need of some weight in the rear anyway and could probably use to give up a horse or two doing this.[COLOR=red] a Fiat xr9 had the motor in the back but had the radiator in the from so you could doo it that way IF you get the rite parts.[/COLOR]

Has anybody ever tried something like this? Does the water pump have what it would take to push water to the rear of the car and back? It would basically be level and wouldn't take much.
[COLOR=red]with that much travel I would use an electric in line pump to help it along.........joe.[/COLOR]

TIA
GB~
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 01:32 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: greener pastures
Posts: 238
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
JET HOT the exhaust if not already done. That's help reduce underhood temperatures. Ventilate the hood with louvers and possibly the fenders with some type of ducting, louvers or vents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 01:51 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,376
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
There has to be about a zillion and a half of cars like that around. Have you tried asking any Mustang bulletin boards? Anyway, it does sound like your problem is air flow, not water volume. However you do it, you need to add air flow. The auxiliary radiator will work great IF you add a high flow air fan on it. That sounds like a less desirable option - kind of hard to install nicely and a maintenance headache. Can you slide the motor back at all?

How hot is hot? A car with good radiator, 12# cap and 50/50 coolant mix will handle 250F with no problem. The engine will still run fine and nothing will be hurt except radiator hoses may have a little shorter life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 03:48 PM
'67Pony's Avatar
Dancin' to Heavens Door
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 47
Posts: 92
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey Willys, I tried this question at bigblockfox on yahoo...but they're just a bunch of kids with newer style Mustangs. Don't seem to get much response out of them with my 1967 questions.
Don't flame me here but my temp readings come from the generic gauge as I haven't invested in a good gauge set and tach yet. Still just trying to work out the kinks. The temp gets up to the - C |_____| H - H on the gauge and starts smelling hot. As far as the motor moving back, I have about 1 1/2 inches to work with between the motor and the firewall...and need that to put tranny bolts in, so thats not really an option. Before I go on too much more, I'll be getting gauges and a decent tach. With this kind of horsepower ($$$$) I need to know whats going on.

In my haste to write that original post I failed to mention that I was hoping for something that didn't require and "cutting and/or body mods". In a worst case scenario I can pull the radiator, cut the existing factory radiator mounts out of the way and re-install the new radiator. This will give me another 3/4" and I should be able to squeeze a fan in there with about 1/8" to spare...but I had better chain that block down cuz 1/8" isn't much....I would feel better with a 1/2" or more.

The headers have been ceramiced inside and out and the thermostat has been removed. I parked it on a good incline to burp the block and fill to the brim.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't a good LARGE 2 core aluminum cool as well as a 4 core factory radiator? I have no experience but have read this many times. I could be wrong though.

As far as air circulation, I guess I could pull the hood off and if it still gets hot circulation isn't the sole problem. I'll try that.

Dig this, I bought this engine from a 1972 T-bird with 129K miles running and rolling. Rebuilt the motor and was half thinking I might put a 4 speed in so I decided to re-use the trans. Well, I changed the filter and slapped it back in. Yeah, that lasted 7 miles. Stomped it once, blew 4 quarts of fluid out the tailshaft and lost secon gear. So anything I decide and/or try wil require testing at a later date...when I get the new trans installed.

The only other thing I can think of is that I've heard of stubby nosed water pumps. If I can get one for a Ford 429/460 that might get me enough clearance to put a mechanical flex fan on. Anybody heard of or tried using one of these type water pumps?

Thanks guys....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 03:59 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 416
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How about tearing a page from the trifive chevy book,and either putting the radiator in front of the core support and using a mechanical fan{a small radiator my be needed},or cutting the core support and moving the radiator foward and then rebuilding the support to fit the new radiator location.If you want something real tick maybe try a Vettelike setup by cutting only the top of the core support and tilting the radiator foward and then rebuilding the support to accomidate the new radiator setup.Such an arrangement might also aid in airflow through the radiator since the find will be slanted to get better contact from the airflow.Either setup is better then an auxillary radiator as you propose.Good luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 04:06 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,376
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I vote for any way to sneak an engine fan and shroud in there somehow. In the mean time, get a good gauge and quantify the temp. I suggest you run with the thermostat. It's purpose is to heat the engine to running temp (thermostat rating) then has no function after that. It just serves to maintain a baseline temp. Taking one out sometimes causes an engine to run hotter due to the water racing thru the radiator B4 it can give up its heat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 04:18 PM
'67Pony's Avatar
Dancin' to Heavens Door
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 47
Posts: 92
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Willys...I think I remember you posting a message once about powder coating/ceramicing blocks and that it had very little effect on cooling. Am I right about that? The one thing that worries me is that I used blue 1200 degree ceramic type spray paint on the block and wondered if this is causing me issues....the motor gets hot like a ****, so it seems to me that it would be disipating heat if it gets that hot to touch.

Anyway, I'm going to figure a way to get the fan in there...thats all there is to it. I'm sick of playing this guessing game - what is it, what is it... Although the plumbing idea to the rear and back intrigues me....

Anywho...thanks for the ideas folks. If I do go with some funky plumbing, I'll let ya'll know how it works.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 04:24 PM
HemmiGremmie's Avatar  

Last journal entry: 52 truck
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Chillicothe Ohio
Age: 47
Posts: 1,406
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Jegs sells this stuff called(I believe) 40below. Its supposed to drop engine heat to like another 10-20 degrees or so. You might check on it. HG
__________________
I was built with the body of a God! To bad it was buddah.

[url]http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?action=view&journalid=2415[/url]

Hemmies rat journal below.

[url]http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?s=f6d0e9c7fec644bb0a70761c0431939b&journalid=84231&action=view[/url]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 04:43 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,376
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
IC engines are heat engines - they all get real hot! Seriously, even though the iron get very hot, the heat transfer rate and surface area are such that the heat loss via that path is a very small percentage of the total. Approximate heat balance on an engine is 25% goes to the rear wheels, 40% goes out the exhaust, 33% goes out the radiator. The little remaining is lost in various other minor ways including radiation and convection from the block and heads. Not worth fretting about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 04:43 PM
Jmark's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: phoenix
Age: 61
Posts: 4,786
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Also ck your "generic electric fan". Most really suck ( no pun intended) as far as CFM ratings. Its possible its only rated at 1000 cfm, but you can get some better ones rated up to 3000. That may help a bunch. Adding a 3 row rad would be a real plus too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 07:28 PM
bud-23's Avatar
Are we having fun yet?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: east san diego co. ca.
Age: 71
Posts: 215
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Jmark took one of my suggestions about fan size. You do need one that puts out atleast 2800 cfm. I have a 67 as well, only a sbf, but built. As you probably know the mustangs have a small shroud to begin with and it was a must for mine. Can you make a small shroud to fit with a piece of aluminum even if you half to two piece it? Willys36 is right about the thermostat. I use a 160 hi-flow with a 2 row(new) and the temp stays between 170-175. HTH. Norm.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2003, 08:42 PM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,848
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 20
Thanked 243 Times in 198 Posts
You said that you removed the thermostat.......PUT IT BACK IN.
Running a motor without the thermostat will cause it to overheat worse. It lets the coolant flow through the rad too fast, and it won't disipate the heat. Put a 180 degree thermostat in it which will slow down the coolant flow and allow your rad to do its job.
A 4 core rad will also help coll it better.
Fan shrouds also help alot when using the stock fan, but won't help much here.
__________________
Ontario Rodders
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.