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Old 04-01-2005, 03:35 PM
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Will 80% ethanol blend hurt my engine?

I have heard some rumors about the new ethanol fuel and my local gas station just started selling 80% ethanol. I'd like to start using it since it's at 1.79/gal.; but would it hurt my engine? thanks bf
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Old 04-01-2005, 04:06 PM
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It shouldn't "hurt" your engine but there are materials compatability issues you should look at before you run it (non-anodized aluminum and certain rubbers don't get along with ethanol). Also will need about 30% richer jetting and more timing advance for max power. Ideally you should have an increased CR to make max use of this fuel - maybe 12:1.
Bunch of info here - http://www.westbioenergy.org/reports...5019_final.htm
a quick search will yield tons of info.
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Old 04-01-2005, 04:23 PM
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I would be using it in a stock 95 dodge dakota 3.9L. so the compression would be nowhere near 11-1 but if theres no chance of it hurting my engine and they are selling it to the public at a popular gas station then I should be ok
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:27 PM
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Here is one of a few dozen postings on the same subject on this forum.
http://hotrodders.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=octane
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Old 04-01-2005, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian12c
I would be using it in a stock 95 dodge dakota 3.9L. so the compression would be nowhere near 11-1 but if theres no chance of it hurting my engine and they are selling it to the public at a popular gas station then I should be ok
Do some research before trying it, every car is different and yours isn't designed or modified to be compatible with E85.
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Old 04-01-2005, 08:56 PM
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Do some research before trying it, every car is different and yours isn't designed or modified to be compatible with E85.
Ditto. The computer won't be able to compensate for the new set of variables that an alcohol blended fuel brings in. Also, the materials that your fuel sysem is made out of are not compatable with alcohol. It is very possible that the strainer in the tank and/or the pump and even the tank itself(if I remember right, it is plastic) will be adversley affected by the ethanol. As well, alcohol is corrosive. The plumbing and o-rings used in the injection system have to be specially designed to withstand this. Various sensors won't be calibrated for the fuel, primarily the HO2S. In the long run, I think this would be more expensive that running regular fuel. Just my $.02, for what it's worth.
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Old 04-01-2005, 09:21 PM
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running on E-80/E-85

Alcahol requires running a lot richer fuel air mixture (approx. 40% richer) than gasoline, so if you try to run it without having your carburetion or fuel system set up to run it, you are going to wind up with a very expensive piece of scrap metal under your hood, and I mean in very short order.
The E-80/E-85 fuel is made for modern vehicles which have computerized controls for alternative fuels.
Alcahol engines do love compression, however, you could run it in an 8.5:1 engine.
Advantages to Alcahol is that you will get an immediate 10% increase in your torque and hp, with no other mods, other than setting your intake up for running alcahol.
The combustion temps are lower, so your engine runs cooler, requiring a smaller cooling system. ( I dont advocate going to a smaller radiator just because youre running alcahol though).
Disadvantages are, alcahol doesnt like to vaporize below 55 degrees so there are enhansers added to compensate for that.
With the richer fuel mixture, your mileage will drop about the same approximate amount as the richness, and your fuel bill will increase by that same figure.

E-85 in my area is the same price as regular gas, but I live in Iowa where about 90% of the production of ethanol for use in fuel.
But not all the stations carry it, the nearest being about 20 miles away.
BTW, I am a big advocate of Hi Ethanol content fuel.
It burns cleaner, so far less immissions.
The power increase is a definate plus, so you can somewhat compensate by running a slightly taller rear gear, and will then have the same performance as you have now, as well as potentially pick up a mile or two to the gallon mileage.
High ethanol content fuels dont suffer the same problems with corrosion and eating up of parts as is done with methanol, and since your car was built and will run good on a 10% blend of ethanol with out any of those problems, you dont have to worry about changing a bunch of hoses etc.
If you want to make a dedicated E-80/E-85 vehicle, I would recommend doing an overhaul first, along with pumping the compression up to around 11:1, and it will probably also require, higher pressure, and fuel flow injectors.
From there I would contact someone like JET or one of the computer chip manufacturers and consult them on getting a chip burned to plug into your unit, so it will run on this fuel.
With a little bit of investment, you could have a pretty nice little high output engine.
Other mods to the engine as the wallet will allow.
There are several threads that have been posted concerning running E-80/E-85, you might check them out.
I would also contact some outfits that deal with those issues as well.

Last edited by Max Keith; 04-01-2005 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Max Keith] E-85 in my area is the same price as regular gas, but I live in Iowa where about 90% of the production of ethanol for use in fuel.
But not all the stations carry it, the nearest being about 20 miles away.
BTW, I am a big advocate of Hi Ethanol content fuel.
It burns cleaner, so far less immissions.
The power increase is a definate plus, so you can somewhat compensate by running a slightly taller rear gear, and will then have the same performance as you have now, as well as potentially pick up a mile or two to the gallon mileage.
High ethanol content fuels dont suffer the same problems with corrosion and eating up of parts as is done with methanol, and since your car was built and will run good on a 10% blend of ethanol with out any of those problems, you dont have to worry about changing a bunch of hoses etc.

QUOTE]

/\Will any modern car (read: made within the past 10 years) run ok off E85? It sounds like an excellent way to help farmers and reduce the consumption of dino juice.
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:33 PM
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E-80/e-85

Currently, unless you have a car that is designed to run on alternative fuels, from the factory, unless you modify your engine to run on it, youre out of luck.
Yes it is a good deal. Its a renewable resource, and its a lot cleaner burning than gasoline. I am a strong advocate of it, even though I know it would hit me hard in the wallet to run it. Computerized cars set up to run it will get significantly better mileage than will a car thats got a carburetor on it, as the computer can be dialed in so much more exact on fuel requirments.
If it was readily available, I would probably set up my 94 T-bird to run on it.
As the demand increases for it, alcahol fuel will become more readily available.
I believe.
The biggest problem with petrolium based fuel prices going so high right now is because thanks to Jimmy Carter, we havent had a refinery built in this country in over 30 yrs. There isnt a shortage of oil, its just that we cant refine it fast enough, and it takes 5-7 yrs to build a refinery.
There is also the emerging nations to add into the equation. The former Soviet bloc nations are enjoying free enterprise, and people are making more money, so the demand for automobiles has gone up drastically, and this has put a major cramp in the world oil supply. For instance, the demand for gasoline for private vehicles in Russia has gone up 4000% since the Berlin Wall came down, and in China, it has gone up close to 1000% in the last 10 yrs.
An added little tidbit, My neighbor is a truck driver, and he runs his truck almost exclusively on Soy diesel. He claims it runs better, gets better mileage, and also it burns cleaner as well. If you follow a semi down the highway and it smells like somethings burning in the kitchen, hes running soy diesel.
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Old 04-03-2005, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Keith
The biggest problem with petrolium based fuel prices going so high right now is because thanks to Jimmy Carter, we havent had a refinery built in this country in over 30 yrs. There isnt a shortage of oil, its just that we cant refine it fast enough, and it takes 5-7 yrs to build a refinery.


There is also the emerging nations to add into the equation. The former Soviet bloc nations are enjoying free enterprise, and people are making more money, so the demand for automobiles has gone up drastically, and this has put a major cramp in the world oil supply. For instance, the demand for gasoline for private vehicles in Russia has gone up 4000% since the Berlin Wall came down, and in China, it has gone up close to 1000% in the last 10 yrs.

An added little tidbit, My neighbor is a truck driver, and he runs his truck almost exclusively on Soy diesel. He claims it runs better, gets better mileage, and also it burns cleaner as well. If you follow a semi down the highway and it smells like somethings burning in the kitchen, hes running soy diesel.
1. My parents think Jimmy is a saint. Wasn't Iran an aly of ours until some rebels overthrew the government there, and Carter sent no help to who was a friend? Jesus ought to do the Lazarus thing to FDR (for the dems) or Regan (for the pubs). Personally, i'm a "conservative independent".

2. Why don't they buy those little transport bubbles called Honduh Insight and Toyoduh Prius over there in China and all? Same with our inner-urban new car buyers. Why isn't GM making a Chevy Cobalt Hybrid? It'd be easier to parallel park than, say, a Envoy. Unless mr. new car buyer really needs the room and/or towing capacity.

3. I'd love a vw diesel converted to run off "anything" (veggie oil, mcdonalds oil, soy diesel, biodiesel, dino diesel, etc). Probably a well-kept 1980s-early 90s vw. It'd be a nice daily driver for the fuel prices these days.
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Old 04-03-2005, 10:46 AM
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IMO it's too late/waste of money to build new oil refineries. We should can the oil subsidies (they are tremendous, just check the GAO records if you don't belive me) and redirect that funding toward more renewable fuels and research for new technologies.
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Old 04-03-2005, 01:58 PM
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too little/ too late

Rhanson, to some degree I do agree with you, but look when all those subsidies began, as payments to the oil companies. It was back in the late 70's, to prevent them from building new refineries. And, remember, that it only takes a simple majority of both the House and the Senate to make a law, but it takes a 2/3 majority to undo it, and you arent going to get a 2/3 majority very easily.
I too am an advocate of alternative fuels, and I do think the research on them could be going a lot faster, however, the problem lies in that as with many people in the private sector, they arent going to turn a finger unless the Govt coughs up the money for them to act. At this point its almost like closing the barn door after the livestock have gotten loose.
Companies have discovered that they can get a welfare check to pay for R&D, and as long as they can get someone else to pay the tab, they will do it, just like the three generations of professional welfare cases weve had since Johnson began his war on poverty.
The only way its going to be done is for the citizenry of this nation to begin a loud hue and cry for the alternative fuels. Much research has been done on it and unfortunately, many of what were thought to be promising sources of fuel have been proven to be unsuccessful.
As for the Chinese and Russians driving small cars, for the most part, they do. And why should those people deny themselves a nice car just for our sake? However, it only takes about two Ford Fiestas or some equivelent vehicles to demand the same amount of fossil fuel as does your Blazer or Bronco.
Hybrids are a good idea, but as of yet are somewhat in the experimental stage and there isnt enough demand for them, to make them priceable where everyone will want one. Personally, unless that Hybrid is capable of doing 0-60 in about 5 seconds and will top out at over 100 MPH, and give me as good a ride as my 94 T-bird, I dont want one.

Last edited by Max Keith; 04-03-2005 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 04-03-2005, 02:29 PM
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If hybrids are such a hot ticket why don't you advocates try it your self on your own vehicle?

Yup, ditch the alternator and plug your car into the wall each night to let the batteries charge.
That would be a start.
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Old 04-03-2005, 02:47 PM
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Max Keith - you're right but we've got to start sometime, and believe me - I'm on it. Now if I can just get my crystal ball working again I'll be all set.
NXS - I prefer to drive the most fuel efficient vehicle I can afford, which, right now, looks like it will be a Honda moped.
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Old 04-03-2005, 02:48 PM
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I don't see the point, say theoretically, your motor didnt mind the blend, and everything will run fine with it.

But since it burns so much more, where's the savings really at, considering you're always back at the pump filling back up?
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