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Old 05-27-2013, 09:55 AM
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will epoxy primer orange peel be visible after paint?

im moving along nicely with the bodywork on my car. i've completed the filler work, and went through 2 complete rounds of urethane priming and guidecoat. The body is the way I want It, nice and straight. I noticed when I did the deck lid, the Sherwin Williams Barret Jackson jet black single stage is thin and I applied a black epoxy primer over the body. my plan was to scuff with a grey scotchbrite and shoot it... I noticed after further scuffing that there is orange peel in the primer and the surface is rough. my question is, if I scuff it, after I shoot my paint, and cut and buff, will the roughness of the primer be visible?



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Old 05-27-2013, 10:01 AM
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It will be there, sometimes worse than others. This is why I don't like using a sealer at all. In my opinion sealers be it epoxy primer or what ever is for production work only. It is to cover up minor flaws, it's to make it a uniform color, it is to fill scratches from too coarse of paper, all the things you need in collision work to get something done faster. Which is just fine on doing a "restoration" or other work too, it all depends on your expectations of the finished product. I don't know exactly what you are after, but if you are doing a nicer project you simply have it all primed in urethane primer, one color, you prep it with finer paper and you paint right over it.

Have you reduced the epoxy primer to make a "sealer" out of it? That is usually the difference between your epoxy primer/sealer being a primer and a sealer, the reduction. When using it as a "wet on wet" sealer you reduce it more.

Brian
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:42 AM
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You can wetsand your sealer to make it nice and flat before paint. Of course body shops don't do that but you have time and you can do it.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:59 AM
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And my point is if you are going to sand the sealer, why apply it? Sand the urethane primer down flat and paint over it, one less step, one less product to buy and less work, it's a win win to me.

Brian
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
And my point is if you are going to sand the sealer, why apply it? Sand the urethane primer down flat and paint over it, one less step, one less product to buy and less work, it's a win win to me.

Brian
In case paint doesn't cover well, ie. white paint over gray urethane primer. You'd use white sealer but then you can wetsand it down, being careful not to sand through and shoot your paint.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:00 PM
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I'm with you, but that can be solved by using the proper color primer to begin with. This is just my way of doing things, I am not saying you are wrong.

Brian
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:30 PM
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thanks guys, and yes, I did reduce the primer.... I wetsanded the primer with 400 grit, and am prepared to shoot my single stage tomorrow..

thanks for all the help everyone..
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
And my point is if you are going to sand the sealer, why apply it? Sand the urethane primer down flat and paint over it, one less step, one less product to buy and less work, it's a win win to me.

Brian
Well, I feel the same way kinda...on most cars no sealer over urathane primer is ok as long as its all the same color,,,but epoxy is much better to have under the paint in your high dollar jobs because of its better chip resistance mainly..So its better to have an epoxy covering up the urathane but not a must do.
I 've been using nothing but epoxy for a couple years now so when I wet sand with 400 Im ready to paint...But I use abuildable, sandable epoxy from bare metal to sealer ,one primer all the way through
....
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:32 AM
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You mention "chip resistance", very interesting as I have seen that mentioned in this discussion of painting over the urethane before. Do you have any real proof of this or is it just what we have been told by the product manufacturer? I have to wonder, I can see it being possibly more chip resistant but I have to wonder.

Brian
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:02 AM
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Since I started using epoxy on the bumpers I paint I've noticed
the reduction of road rash, ten fold, it's made an impressive difference
to me. I'm convinced, even a sealer coat of epoxy primer before
paint makes for a much more chip resistant finish.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:10 AM
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Interesting Jim.

Brian
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
You mention "chip resistance", very interesting as I have seen that mentioned in this discussion of painting over the urethane before. Do you have any real proof of this or is it just what we have been told by the product manufacturer? I have to wonder, I can see it being possibly more chip resistant but I have to wonder.

Brian
Brian,
Yes this can be measured with an adhesion tester.
Now lets confuse the issue as I have spent 1000 of hours playing with these tests:
Not all epoxies are made to do the same thing and the adhesion rate will be different among them.
Also, different bases have different adhesion rates and with the same epoxy you can measure the differences, with or without epoxy.

Here is what I have proved to myself over the years of testing, my opinion is the worst epoxy made is "way far better" then the best urethane sealer as far as adhesion, flexibility equaling stone chip resistance.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:18 AM
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Thanks Barry.

Brian
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:32 AM
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Aw Man, So all this time I've been using the BEST epoxy known to man I could have saved some cash and used some crap Nason

Seriously though, Heres How I KNOW epoxy is better..(Quite by accident no tests) leave a 1/4 " of activated epoxy in a mixing cup and do the same with an activated urathane (2k) primer...after a week or so flip the cup upside down a tap out the little puck the first thing you'll notice is the 2k urathane has broken into pieces and the epoxy puck is completely intact ...The second thing you'll see is just how flexible this epoxy is...I do this with all the materials I use ..... trydoing this with different brands of clears and SS paint too you'll be surprized what you find out about your favorate brands or even a new brand your trying...
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:37 PM
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Aw Man, So all this time I've been using the BEST epoxy known to man I could have saved some cash and used some crap Nason

Seriously though, Heres How I KNOW epoxy is better..(Quite by accident no tests) leave a 1/4 " of activated epoxy in a mixing cup and do the same with an activated urathane (2k) primer...after a week or so flip the cup upside down a tap out the little puck the first thing you'll notice is the 2k urathane has broken into pieces and the epoxy puck is completely intact ...The second thing you'll see is just how flexible this epoxy is...I do this with all the materials I use ..... trydoing this with different brands of clears and SS paint too you'll be surprized what you find out about your favorate brands or even a new brand your trying...
Best test there is!

I have some 2-4 inch hockey pucks but they need to set for a few weeks in the cup and then carefully pop out as you will see solvents still all over the bottom of cup, then let set another three months to finish curing, you can do same with clear or epoxy, then grab your favorite sledge hammer.
It is a great test BUT!!!!! I have never found an ASTM test number to specify this test??? LOL
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