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Old 12-11-2007, 09:24 PM
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Will Vortech heads from a 350 fit a 305?

I'm planning on rebuilding the 305 in my 84 T/A rather than go through the hassle of upgrading to a 350. I've got a 350 bare block so purcahsing an ecm, an other stuff I don't have for a 350 will out-cost the rebuild significantly) but I really don't want these Vortech heads I've got in my garage to go to waste. The cast number on the heads is 12558062. L31 heads, 1.95/1.50 with 170cc intake port (courtesy of MorTech.com). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

--I think I found what I was looking for in this article here...

Car Craft 324hp 305

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Old 12-11-2007, 11:13 PM
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The combustion chamber on one of my L31 heads measured 4" across from front to rear. Bore on the 305 is 3-3/4", which would leave a 1/8"-wide "shelf" at the top of the block. Might cause some intake valve shrouding, I think. HO 305 heads only used a 1.84" intake valve, probably due to bore shrouding or maybe to avoid actual valve-to-bore interference.

That article mentioned that they milled the L31 heads .045", which might not be such a good idea.
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:49 PM
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Well, I've called 4 different shops where I'm going to be when I need to rebuild my motor, and none of them work on Vortec heads. Looks like I'll wind up having work done to my stock heads to see if I can make them flow better.
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozz1967
I'm planning on rebuilding the 305 in my 84 T/A rather than go through the hassle of upgrading to a 350. I've got a 350 bare block so purcahsing an ecm, an other stuff I don't have for a 350 will out-cost the rebuild significantly) but I really don't want these Vortech heads I've got in my garage to go to waste. The cast number on the heads is 12558062. L31 heads, 1.95/1.50 with 170cc intake port (courtesy of MorTech.com). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

--I think I found what I was looking for in this article here...

Car Craft 324hp 305
Yes the 062s will work on a 305 but just putting on Vortec heads will require a chip change in the computer. Since you have to belly up to the bar for a chip anyway, why not put a 350 under the Vortecs? Even a mild cam like the Edlebrock 3702, with Vortec heads, headers, duals, and about 500-600 cfm of intake capability will pump out an easy 300 hp.

Bogie
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Yes the 062s will work on a 305 but just putting on Vortec heads will require a chip change in the computer. Since you have to belly up to the bar for a chip anyway, why not put a 350 under the Vortecs? Even a mild cam like the Edlebrock 3702, with Vortec heads, headers, duals, and about 500-600 cfm of intake capability will pump out an easy 300 hp.

Bogie
My car right now. 1984 Trans Am with stock L69 Ho 305 hooked to a 700R4 transmission. I've put a new cc Q-jet from jet performance products on it along with headers and a cat-back from hooker. My problem is that it's leaking like a siv at almost 3 quarts per oil change and the cost to "fix" the leaks based on shop estimates runs me just under a grand less than a complete rebuild. So I've decided to go ahead and spend the money on it when I sell my house and have it rebuilt. But then I had a dillema. Rebuild the 305, or go up to a 350. Problem is, the 350 I have, is just a block and a set of heads.

The block I have is a completely bare 2-bolt main 350 out of a Silverado that's sitting on the floor in the garage. The only thing I managed to get with it were the Vortec's I'm talking about which are on the floor right next to it. I've had some block work done to make sure the block was good--hot tanked, magnafluxed, honed and bored .030to clean up a cylinder--but was told to wait on the heads until I decide what to do with the engine.

As the T/A is pretty much my daily driver, I want to get maximize my mpg/hp which is why i'm targeting 250-300hp at the flywheel. While a 350 can do the HP very easily, the problem is that I still want to pull the 25mpg on the highway I can with my 305. If I build a mild 350, will it still be able to manage 23-25mpg on the highway?

When I started looking around, I found that web-site which got me excited. I could rebuild my 305 and get the power I want and the people I've spoken to (through web sites and message boards) who have done similar builds report the kind of mileage I'm looking for. The main difference is that they simply rebuilt their heads rather than putting vortec's on. So I wasn't aware that a head change would require me to change the chip as it's pretty basic as-is.

In rebuilding the 305 (it's leaking almost 3 quarts every oil change and just went over 120k miles), I was going to simply get a basic rebuild kit, up the cam a little and then rebuild and install the vortec heads (needs new rockers also) on it along with a vortec egr compatable intake.

That, compared to having buy everything for the 350 because it has nothing on it will run more than the 305 rebuild won't it? This is the first time I've had to have any engine work on any of my cars so I'm asking alot of questions (probably some repeats) and really would like to know more about it. So I read and read and read, and yet, only those who have done it truly have the answers. I know "what I want", I'm just not sure of the best way to get there.

To top it all off, I can't find a machine shop near Ogden/Salt Lake that will even work on the Vortecs.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to shed some light on what I would like to do. Any help and info you guys could provide is most welcome and recieved with a hearty THANKS!
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:58 PM
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The savings on oil alone should be enough to finance anything the 350 requires over and above the 305.

The machine work that the 305 block needs would cost no more for the 350, and 350 parts should cost the same if not a little less. Computer mods would probably be necessary, but it might be a simple as a chip change. Might contact Jet and see if the carb needs any changes.

Might be cheaper to buy new Vortec heads than to have the old ones redone. Scoggin-Dickey has new ones for $270 each, assembled. They also have some that are modified for higher cam lift for $70 more.

The 350 should get decent mileage if you build it right, and 25mpg should not be a problem if you can control the position of your right foot. I've gotten a consistent 21mpg with a '72 Nova with smogger 350 and no overdrive, so with your 700R4 and superior aerodynamics & engine, it should be a piece of cake.

If the truck block is from the '90s, it should be set up to accept a factory-style hydraulic roller cam. If your car has a mechanical fuel pump, be sure the hole for the pump push rod is machined in the truck block.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimfulco
The savings on oil alone should be enough to finance anything the 350 requires over and above the 305.

The machine work that the 305 block needs would cost no more for the 350, and 350 parts should cost the same if not a little less. Computer mods would probably be necessary, but it might be a simple as a chip change. Might contact Jet and see if the carb needs any changes.

Might be cheaper to buy new Vortec heads than to have the old ones redone. Scoggin-Dickey has new ones for $270 each, assembled. They also have some that are modified for higher cam lift for $70 more.

The 350 should get decent mileage if you build it right, and 25mpg should not be a problem if you can control the position of your right foot. I've gotten a consistent 21mpg with a '72 Nova with smogger 350 and no overdrive, so with your 700R4 and superior aerodynamics & engine, it should be a piece of cake.

If the truck block is from the '90s, it should be set up to accept a factory-style hydraulic roller cam. If your car has a mechanical fuel pump, be sure the hole for the pump push rod is machined in the truck block.
Hmm, all good points. I don't plan on running a radical cam, surely nothing over .450 or so to keep the engine where I'm looking to have it. Jet will get me a new chip, but that's in the $400 range because it's new and not reprogramming mine and the carb will need new jets for the 350. The block is a factory roller (almost all 96 and up are now). As for the new heads...that might be an idea and I could try and sell mine to recoup some of the loss. That way I wouldn't have to find a place to rebuild it.

And as for the position of my right foot? hehe cruise control baby! yeah!
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:50 AM
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Build the 350

350 parts are a lot cheaper than 305 parts. If you just build a mild 350 and your wanting @300HP thats very easy. 300 Hpfrom the 305 is more costly. Didn't you say the 350 is allready prepped and bored .030? Even if you don't build a 350 you should use the Vortecs. Check out this deal & they have several upgrades you can add. I use these kits all the time for rebuilds, there dirt cheap and good parts. Just add a cheap cast steel crank and some recond. rods & your set.
Most people can't believe how good these builds I do run when I tell them how much $$ I paid for the parts.
http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...?ProductId=148
http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...?CategoryId=76
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Old 12-17-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozz1967
My car right now. 1984 Trans Am with stock L69 Ho 305 hooked to a 700R4 transmission. I've put a new cc Q-jet from jet performance products on it along with headers and a cat-back from hooker. My problem is that it's leaking like a siv at almost 3 quarts per oil change and the cost to "fix" the leaks based on shop estimates runs me just under a grand less than a complete rebuild. So I've decided to go ahead and spend the money on it when I sell my house and have it rebuilt. But then I had a dillema. Rebuild the 305, or go up to a 350. Problem is, the 350 I have, is just a block and a set of heads.

The block I have is a completely bare 2-bolt main 350 out of a Silverado that's sitting on the floor in the garage. The only thing I managed to get with it were the Vortec's I'm talking about which are on the floor right next to it. I've had some block work done to make sure the block was good--hot tanked, magnafluxed, honed and bored .030to clean up a cylinder--but was told to wait on the heads until I decide what to do with the engine.

As the T/A is pretty much my daily driver, I want to get maximize my mpg/hp which is why i'm targeting 250-300hp at the flywheel. While a 350 can do the HP very easily, the problem is that I still want to pull the 25mpg on the highway I can with my 305. If I build a mild 350, will it still be able to manage 23-25mpg on the highway?

When I started looking around, I found that web-site which got me excited. I could rebuild my 305 and get the power I want and the people I've spoken to (through web sites and message boards) who have done similar builds report the kind of mileage I'm looking for. The main difference is that they simply rebuilt their heads rather than putting vortec's on. So I wasn't aware that a head change would require me to change the chip as it's pretty basic as-is.

In rebuilding the 305 (it's leaking almost 3 quarts every oil change and just went over 120k miles), I was going to simply get a basic rebuild kit, up the cam a little and then rebuild and install the vortec heads (needs new rockers also) on it along with a vortec egr compatable intake.

That, compared to having buy everything for the 350 because it has nothing on it will run more than the 305 rebuild won't it? This is the first time I've had to have any engine work on any of my cars so I'm asking alot of questions (probably some repeats) and really would like to know more about it. So I read and read and read, and yet, only those who have done it truly have the answers. I know "what I want", I'm just not sure of the best way to get there.

To top it all off, I can't find a machine shop near Ogden/Salt Lake that will even work on the Vortecs.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to shed some light on what I would like to do. Any help and info you guys could provide is most welcome and recieved with a hearty THANKS!
You can buy a long block Mr. Good Wrench 350 that will bolt right in using your existing intake and exhaust for about 1400 dollars + shipping from your neighbor in El Paso . http://www.sdparts.com/product/10067...ateEngine.aspx

If you want to add some omph go read this stuff:
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...320/index.html



http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...326/index.html



http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...359/index.html



http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...364/index.html



http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...370/index.html



http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...438/index.html



http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...461/index.html



http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...467/index.html



Bogie
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:06 PM
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I'm curious why the shops you called won't work on the Vortecs? Did they give any reasons?

Mark
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmark
I'm curious why the shops you called won't work on the Vortecs? Did they give any reasons?

Mark
This is sort of how it goes...

**Me
I've got a 350 that I want to build to replace a 305 in my Trans Am. I was wondering, do you guys do work on Vortec heads?

**person on the phone "No, I"m sorry we don't."

**Me "Really, why's that?

**person on the phone "we don't have anyone here who's had experience working on them"...

______

That pretty much ends the conversation right there. What suprised me is that RPM machine out of Sandy Utah was one of the places I was looking hard at. They do everything I need to have done with reasonable prices, except work on Vortec heads. The other three shops were local to the Ogden area who I called, all with the same answer. No experience working on them.

I guess they're way different than normal heads.../shrug or at least it appears that way. Do any of you know of any shops in the Salt Lake area that you'd reccommend?
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozz1967
This is sort of how it goes...

**Me
I've got a 350 that I want to build to replace a 305 in my Trans Am. I was wondering, do you guys do work on Vortec heads?

**person on the phone "No, I"m sorry we don't."

**Me "Really, why's that?

**person on the phone "we don't have anyone here who's had experience working on them"...

______

That pretty much ends the conversation right there. What suprised me is that RPM machine out of Sandy Utah was one of the places I was looking hard at. They do everything I need to have done with reasonable prices, except work on Vortec heads. The other three shops were local to the Ogden area who I called, all with the same answer. No experience working on them.

I guess they're way different than normal heads.../shrug or at least it appears that way. Do any of you know of any shops in the Salt Lake area that you'd reccommend?
Once you've removed the fuel injection and stripped the heads off the block, except for a different intake bolt pattern and a lack of an exhaust crossover to heat the intake, they look and act like any other SBC head. The combustion chamber has a different shape that shouldn't have any effect on the guy that cleans them. They use the same valves as any other std production 350 head. The seats are either hardened, been that way since 1974, or they have hard seat inserts which shops have been installing as a repair item since 1901 or so. The only other difference is the self aligning rocker, which if removed, they wouldn't even know the difference, besides that's been a regular part of Chevy heads since 1987.

So I don't get it!

Bogie
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:27 PM
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305s and 350s share the same stroke If you can afford it build the 350 or even a 383...speedway sells cheap 383 kits...I'll look them up in a little bit
Shane
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chevrolet4x4s
305s and 350s share the same stroke If you can afford it build the 350 or even a 383...speedway sells cheap 383 kits...I'll look them up in a little bit
Shane
Yes but not the same crank. The counter weighting is different as the 305 has lesser masses in the rod and piston than the 350.

Bogie
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Once you've removed the fuel injection and stripped the heads off the block, except for a different intake bolt pattern and a lack of an exhaust crossover to heat the intake, they look and act like any other SBC head. The combustion chamber has a different shape that shouldn't have any effect on the guy that cleans them. They use the same valves as any other std production 350 head. The seats are either hardened, been that way since 1974, or they have hard seat inserts which shops have been installing as a repair item since 1901 or so. The only other difference is the self aligning rocker, which if removed, they wouldn't even know the difference, besides that's been a regular part of Chevy heads since 1987.

So I don't get it!

Bogie
I'll give them another call tomorrow and see if I can't pin them down on why they won't work on them. I don't even know if they're bad, I simply pulled them off the engine (Same block I had worked on). The block had spun bearings (I know I spelled that wrong) but other than that it turned out fine so the heads should be ok.
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