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Old 09-17-2007, 05:52 AM
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A deep sump pan and crank scraper work well. I've also ran a scraper and windage tray without any problems. But on the last motor I built with a fairly aggressive solid lifter cam I put it together without any scraper and tray-just to add some extra oil being thrown at the cam. I've also added vent holes above the cam where the factory didn't have any just to get some more drip on the other lobes. Lubrication on these flat tappet lobes is getting to be tough subject with the junk oils now on the shelf. My next BBC build will have a solid roller cam.

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Old 09-17-2007, 12:35 PM
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Then when you get into solid roller oil restrictors will probably become necessary.
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:59 PM
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Also realize that MUCH of what they write in rod magazines is blatantly incorrect. You have to do the leg work necessary to educate yourself about the facts. DON'T rely on ANYTHING the rod magazines say.
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Old 09-17-2007, 11:08 PM
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boo yah

Last edited by Urbanfarmer; 09-18-2007 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 09-17-2007, 11:32 PM
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Per Canton website, nice and simple as most things are.

Windage
Windage is the flow of air within the crankcase. Each time a piston comes down in the piston bore the air under it is pushed into the crank area and each time the piston goes up the air is pulled in behind it. In a eight cylinder engine all eight pistons go up and down each revolution. At the same time the rotating assembly is spinning and churning the air. Oil coming off of the crank is also put into the mix. So as the RPM increases so does windage. At 6000 RPM’s the assembly is rotating 100 times a second.

Windage trays
A windage tray keeps the windage around the crank from the oil in the sump area. It should allow the oil coming off the crank to easily enter the sump without the windage affecting the oil already in the sump. A good windage tray should also keep the oil in the sump from getting into the rotating assembly when the action of the vehicle is in motion.

Basically nothing more and nothing less.

Last edited by Rick WI; 09-18-2007 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:56 AM
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Windage trays

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBCMudbogger
Then when you get into solid roller oil restrictors will probably become necessary.

Oil restrictors are NOT recommended for use with roller cams.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick WI
Per Canton website, nice and simple as most things are.
It would be nice if windage were a simple phenomenon but it isn't. That's the only simple thing about it. It is complex in the technical sense of the term "complex" -- it varies distinctly in nature over rpm. This is why, for example, Porsche engineers tried to solve the windage problems in the 928 wetsump engine multiple times over about 25 years unsuccessfully. There are usually ideosyncratic problems that arise from forces not present in static dyno pulls.

The functions for a good windage tray, when examined in detail, have conflicting tasks.

Wet sump pans with windage trays etc. usually have lateral acceleration design limits. Dry sumps then enter the picture but high end dry sumps also typically employ windage trays.
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:08 AM
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Wet sumps by design will always have lateral oil control design limitations simply because they are wet sump. Design features separate from the windage tray are incorporated into the pan to minimize this issue, baffles, trap doors, pickup location and so forth.
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Old 09-18-2007, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick WI
Wet sumps by design will always have lateral oil control design limitations simply because they are wet sump. Design features separate from the windage tray are incorporated into the pan to minimize this issue, baffles, trap doors, pickup location and so forth.
Yes, but this bleeds into the simple definition of windage tray functions that was "basically nothing more and nothing less." It is easy to find examples of windage trays that also attempt to address the function of baffles and so on but the simple definition makes it implicit that they must do so.

Aside: With modern active technology the wetsump could easily have comparable lateral limits to the dry sump. Of course, it would likely be as expensive. Also, such sumps would be promptly ruled illegal in various racing classes.

I had to chuckle when I suggested deepening the pickup in the BF/B6 Mazda engine. Nothing to gain there but keeping the pickup covered under higher angles of repose. Engines are expensive and it is silly to blow them up needlessly. Specifically addressed as illegal in the next set of regs to come out of the SCCA in 2006. In 2007, no mods at all were allowed unless specifically mentioned -- easy way to address it. But any oil can be used.
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Old 09-18-2007, 11:59 AM
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HMMMMMMM........................................Mo roso 22010 • Reduces oil flow to upper engine assembly, leaving more oil available for the rod and main bearings
• Reduces power-robbing windage by reducing the volume of oil passing by the rotating assembly on its return to the pan
• Do not use with hydraulic lifters
When roller rocker arms are installed, along with a mechanical lifter cam, the amount of oil flow required to the valvetrain is greatly reduced. Installing a Moroso oil restrictor kit will limit this unnecessary oil flow. These kits reduce the power-robbing windage created from the excess oil draining past the rotating assembly and keeps the oil flowing where it is needed most, the rod and main bearings.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Hiltz
Oil restrictors are NOT recommended for use with roller cams.
I have to agree... some "companies" suggest them but since solid rollers have no forced lubrication they need all the splash they can get. I think this is REALLY important on a solid roller setup used in a street car. The issue is spring pressure... usually over 220 closed and 500 to 600 lbs open.

Last edited by bigbadbowtie; 09-19-2007 at 06:20 AM.
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