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Old 12-31-2004, 03:47 PM
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Windage trays.......

Are windage trays really worth using or would it be better to spend money elsewhere on a motor????

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Old 12-31-2004, 03:58 PM
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I have used them on anything that revs over 6000rpm on the advice of a professional racer and engine builder in San Diego. They are inexpensive and although they sometimes need a bit of custom work to clear everything (see my journal engine for pictures) I imagine that racers would not use them if there was no benefit. They are supposed to reduce oil frothing and interference with the rotating parts in the bottom end and prevent power loss from the drag induced as the crank and rods sling oil out of the way. On a stock engine driven at modest RPM levels they are probably not going to deliver any performance gain. If you are trying for the max top end and don't want foaming oil in the pan with the possibility of loss of pressure then they are most likely a good thing to include in your engine buildup.

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Old 12-31-2004, 04:00 PM
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windage tray

There are different styles. One has you remove the main cap bolts and put in special studs for the tray to bolt to. If you do this you will have to line bore.
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Old 12-31-2004, 04:24 PM
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Re: windage tray

Quote:
Originally posted by bracketeer
There are different styles. One has you remove the main cap bolts and put in special studs for the tray to bolt to. If you do this you will have to line bore.


I have used a lot windage trays Definitely worth the time to fit on any high performance engine, And why would you have to line bore a engine using studs on the mains? I have built a few with studs with out any problems! Nonsense!!

Last edited by roys63; 12-31-2004 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 12-31-2004, 04:29 PM
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line bore

When the engine is machined it is done with the caps in order and the bolts in their proper holes. Mixing caps and bolts is not a good idea. All bolts are not created equal. Changing the bolts or studs in this case have a good chance of moving the main caps out of alignment.
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:00 PM
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No one is tallking about mixing the caps up, but using the same old main bolts is a Bad Idea on a HP engine. ARP or Better
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Old 12-31-2004, 05:20 PM
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I was just wondering if they were worth using. I put one on my 289 and didn't have it aligned bored, since then I have put 20,000 miles on the motor. I was thinking about putting one on my 302 that will be going into a 1970 F100 pickup, but if they are not worth using on a low rpm motor then I will use my money on something else.
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Old 12-31-2004, 10:14 PM
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ARP says that whenever you use their main studs, you need to have the mains checked.

On my 400 I was lucky. The studs kept my mains okay. Most of the time you will need to have them honed with studs.

Windage trays are good for about 10 to 20 hp depending on the type.

Some of the Pontiac engines came stock with windage trays.
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:40 PM
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Main Cap Bolts -- Factory Procedures

The factory bolts the caps up, then line bores, then removes them to install the crank. Then:

Sometimes they put the exact same bolts back in.

Sometimes they put new bolts with studs in some holes.

Sometimes they put reused (but only once or twice) bolts in.

Think about it -- after the line bore, you have to remove the caps to get the crank in, so the caps always go off and on once. Usually they will set up the fixture to put the same bolt in the same hole when it goes back in. May not be necessary, but simple, and factories live on simple.

If the bolts need studs for a windage tray, these go in replacing two bolts that were in the block for the line bore. The bolts that came out are reused. They usually put in a control on which holes they are used in so that no bolt gets torqued more than 2 or 3 times.

Then -- they always "torque to turn" check the engine. If the crank turns tight, it goes for repair. This is the key, if the crank turns free, there no problem be. Hey I'm a poet.

If the same caps go in the same place, with good bolts, I don't see why you would need a line bore. Just turn the crank to see if it feels free. If it doesn't, check the bearings, check for contamination on the crank, etc. -- This is much more likely to be the problem than the block line bore.
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:46 PM
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Micrometer or plastigauge the mains if you want. Just make sure it is right.
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Old 01-01-2005, 08:56 AM
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302 windage tray: approx $50 for better oil in the pan control , mpg from less oil drag, and (?) 5HP at low rpms....I say money well spent

needs to be a front sump pan on the truck

definitely recommend it if you have a "high volume" oil pump (which you shouldn't have to begin with, waste of HP)

here's a good joke, Boss 302 Windage Tray $52.95,
BOLT KIT: $23.95 (for crank studs???)

Last edited by red65mustang; 01-01-2005 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 01-01-2005, 08:57 AM
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I believe where the problem comes in is with the difference in distortion between studs and bolts. Studs will definately cause somewhat different distortion of the block when torqued down. The question is if the distortion is enough to need align honing. There are tolerances for the main more just as everything else. If it is too much out of round it could cause premature bearing failure. Plastiguage may not show you whether or not it is okay. Best thing would be to torque the mains in place and measure with inside micrometer.

Chris
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Old 01-01-2005, 10:00 AM
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I know of at least 6 SBC running with ARP main studs and they were not line bored ,i will not use a block that needs this done unless it has to have matching #s or a hard to find block like a 409 etc, but these were checked out when assembled, and checked befor and torque to stock specks. I have 2 of these motors . The one is blown a sees 7000 RPM all the time 30,000+ miles to date. The problems i see is people buying these parts and just throwing the parts together and they can't get the thing to crank with the starter and wonder whats wrong ? Isee it in here all the time, "we just rebuilt a engine and now it has no oil , pressure or it has a knock, 500 miles and it knocking" You try to ask some question's on how it was assembled and they don't even know what you are talking about! Lots of wasted parts from people that can't start their lawn mowers building there engines. Then you have the Know it ALL machine Shops that take your money and give you nothing but problems in return.
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Old 01-01-2005, 10:07 AM
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Realign honing a bore because you changed the bolting style? Someones reading too many magazines. Caps are set tight in the registers, thats what aligns them, all the bolts do is retain them in the registers and align them fore and aft.

Think about it, the amount of twist exerted by the fasteners is on the the order of millionths of an inch...does it matter?

Nope.

Somehow this old wives tale gets recycled perpetually and comes from changing rod bolts which are pressed in...completely different story.

To answer the question,,,windage trays are only effective at high rpm where oil control becomes an issue. For your under 6000 rpm grocery getter or street rod they have absolutely no effect and are a waste of money. Spend your money where it will make a difference.
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Old 01-01-2005, 10:12 AM
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Thank You , 4 Jaw
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