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Old 09-15-2006, 03:37 PM
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Windsor engine differences

How can I tell the difference between a 289 and 302 Windsor motor without removing a head to measure bore and stroke? Also was there a 289 Cleveland motor? If so what are the external differences form a 302 Cleveland motor?
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Old 09-15-2006, 04:47 PM
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there was never a 289 or 302 cleveland. the casting no's will tell them apart
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Old 09-15-2006, 07:35 PM
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221, 260, and 289 V8s of the Windsor pattern were built in Windsor. IIRC Ford started the 302, of the Windsor pattern, in Cleveland where it was built until 2000. They may have built some 302s in Windsor but my recollection is that when they brought Cleveland on line they converted the Windsor factory to 351s (I may be wrong, anybody got the history out there?) But they are all "Windsor" engines......
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Old 09-16-2006, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167

there was never a 289 or 302 cleveland. the casting no's will tell them apart
The poster is from NZ. I am assuming they used mostly FORD OF AUSTRALIA technology. There was a 302C there as they used the 302C/351C as we used the 302/351W here.

You can get a ball park idea of stroke by using a dowl inserted in the spark plug opening to measure piston movement from BDC to TDC.
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Old 09-16-2006, 09:08 AM
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I didn't notice he was from Australia but I do know a little about the OZ engines, there cylinder heads are much better than stock heads from America, and they do have small displacement Clevelands unlike in the US.
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Old 09-17-2006, 03:00 AM
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The easiest way to pick a winger from a cleebland is.....Thermostat in intake manifold = windsor, t/stat in block = cleveland. No, no genuine 289c, only 302/351. We also got the 351/400m in f trucks and LTD's here.
Weren't the LAST '70 boss 302s clevelands? I know the 68/69/early 70s were windsor shorts.
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Old 09-17-2006, 03:02 AM
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Should we call the Aussie 302/351c "GEELONG"? that's where the bulk of them were cast - Geelong Victoria.
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Old 09-17-2006, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanRiordan

Weren't the LAST '70 boss 302s clevelands? I know the 68/69/early 70s were windsor shorts.
The BOSS 302 (engine) only saw production in 69/70. The cylinder heads were CLV hybrids and will bolt directly to a SBF block (matching intake also needed)(regular cooling passages).

Are your 302C and 351C the same block or different as is our 302 and 351W?
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Old 09-17-2006, 05:00 AM
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Please re-read my first post. The Cleveland be it cast in North America or Australia has the thermostat in the block. The Windsor has it in the intake manifold. There are NO coolant passages in a 302/351c intake, regardless of its country of origin.
BTW, there was a 68 boss 302, the only year of the sbf tunnel port intake with pushrod tubes through the ports. A few sets showed up over here.
Clevelands showed up here in 1970 phase 2 XW Falcon GTHOs. The XY GTs and phase 3 XY GTHOs had Clevelands, then with the introduction of the XA series ALL V8 Falcon/Fairlane and F trucks until 1984 were cleveland powered. 4Vs in XA and early XB GTs were fully imported, 2Vs were cast and assembled locally. Many 2Vs (LTD,Landau,XC,XD & XE) had 4brl intakes on 2v heads.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanRiordan

Please re-read my first post.
...you talking to me?

Quote:
The Cleveland be it cast in North America or Australia has the thermostat in the block. The Windsor has it in the intake manifold. There are NO coolant passages in a 302/351c intake, regardless of its country of origin.
If you are talking to me, when did I say differently?

Quote:
BTW, there was a 68 boss 302, the only year of the sbf tunnel port intake with pushrod tubes through the ports. A few sets showed up over here.
If there was a production BOSS 302 released during 1968 production, I need a reference. This is something entirely new to me (and I was there when they were released).

1968 saw the release of the TUNNEL PORT 302, which has no relationship with the BOSS 302, other than the basic short (sans pistons)

Quote:
Clevelands showed up here in 1970 phase 2 XW Falcon GTHOs. The XY GTs and phase 3 XY GTHOs had Clevelands, then with the introduction of the XA series ALL V8 Falcon/Fairlane and F trucks until 1984 were cleveland powered. 4Vs in XA and early XB GTs were fully imported, 2Vs were cast and assembled locally. Many 2Vs (LTD,Landau,XC,XD & XE) had 4brl intakes on 2v heads.
Thank You for information regarding FORD of OZ. I would show more interest if the parts were more cheaply made available here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ

The BOSS 302 (engine) only saw production in 69/70. The cylinder heads were CLV hybrids and will bolt directly to a SBF block (matching intake also needed)(regular cooling passages).
Now what is so confusing about the above statement? Did I slur my URL's?

Last edited by poncho62; 10-21-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 09-18-2006, 06:08 AM
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Sorry cuz, I guess we're tuned in to different dialogue. Our 302 and 351c share the same deck height and intake stud patern - unlike the EARLY windsors we got here.They also share the same crank journal dia so they can be swaped back and forth like a large journal sbc.
The 68 t/port 302s were called a Boss 302 when they arrived here for the 1968 season. I know there were no 68 Boss mustangs but as these were called a 'boss' by those who raced them that's what they were called here.
You are welcome to all the 'clevelands' you can find here, overheating, bearing burning, pinging lumps - remind me of a smogger Pontiac. Why do they paint clevelands blue? So they don't frighten the fish.
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanRiordan

Sorry cuz, I guess we're tuned in to different dialogue.
Don't you all call that Lingo in the Outback?

Quote:
Our 302 and 351c share the same deck height and intake stud patern - unlike the EARLY windsors we got here.

They also share the same crank journal dia so they can be swaped back and forth like a large journal sbc.
Now I did not know that! Learn something everyday! Thanks for that information. I a s s-u-me the deck height is our 351C?

Quote:
The 68 t/port 302s were called a Boss 302 when they arrived here for the 1968 season. I know there were no 68 Boss mustangs but as these were called a 'boss' by those who raced them that's what they were called here.
I did not know that either! Was the 302 TP (BOSS to you) available in a chassis or just over the counter? What was the 69 canted head 302 called?

Quote:
You are welcome to all the 'clevelands' you can find here, overheating, bearing burning, pinging lumps - remind me of a smogger Pontiac.

Why do they paint clevelands blue? So they don't frighten the fish.


Now that's good!



Maybe that is why they painted SBC red/orange. To scare the fish away and not harm our sea food source...

Thanx for the education Sir...
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Old 09-19-2006, 03:20 AM
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Yes our 302c has the same deck height as your 351c. Our 351/400m is a taller deck - same as yours.
Those tp windsors were called "boss windsors" when they arrived here with a few RACE - not road mustangs in 68. I'm guessing if they weren't road car issue in the US then Ford were playing games here, like when local (Canadian expat) racer Allan Moffat picked up his 'race prepared' 69 boss 302. Among the modifications Kar Kraft in Michigan performed was to section the car forward of the firewall, Lord it looked like a wedge - no templates then.
69 canted valve Mustangs were a Boss, but as the 351c was released here in the Falcon GT around dec69/jan70 it was called a 'clevo' from the start.
Check out Australian muscle car magazine, it's a blatantly pro Ford rag but in spite of their bias they try to remain factual (not easy if you like Fords).It may help you understand OUR racing history a bit.
Lingo - schmingo, if someone talks too much here he's "yabbering".
My latest sbc (407,220cc heads) has a large runner dual plane, crate motor rocker covers and is painted black. It's going in a Holden ute tow car and if anyone asks it's 'just a 290 hoss crate 350' mister.
See ya, Ian.

Last edited by IanRiordan; 09-19-2006 at 03:22 AM. Reason: didn't include his name.
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Old 09-27-2006, 04:51 PM
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Thanks fella's I think I am a little clearer on this.
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