Wiping down with lacquer thinner - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 09:04 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Wiping down with lacquer thinner

The question has come up about cleaning a surface with lacquer thinner, specifically for epoxy primer prep. I have always been told to never use lacquer or other thinners/reducers for this purpose and to do so could lead to major adhesion problems and I assumed it was because of residue that could remain on the surface. I just mentioned this in another thread and was asked why not but to be honest I really don't know for sure. Even before coming to this site I was under the impression that this should never be done and numerous posts here seem to reinforce this but there seems to be little in the way of the reasons why this is a bad idea. Is it really a bad idea or is it ok after all?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 09:22 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 56
Posts: 13,443
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,577
Thanked 1,331 Times in 1,153 Posts
And exerpt from "Basics of Basics" Surface cleaners (click here)
"First of all letís clear up a few things; Lacquer thinner, acetone, MEK, and enamel or urethane reducers are NOT surface cleaners. Lacquer thinner evaporates too fast and doesnít give you time to wipe it off wet. It is also much to strong a solvent for most cleaning and can get under the edges of sand thrus or soften substrates. Enamel and urethane reducers often have resins and other components in them that are designed to be added to the product they were INTENDED to be used with. To put it in a nutshell, buy and use the products recommended by the manufacture of the paint SYSTEM you are using."

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 09:35 AM
31 five window
 

Last journal entry: grill and rear end
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: louisiana
Age: 57
Posts: 1,582
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
I learned the hard way why not use laquar thinner.I wiped down a part for painting,left it flash dry then started priming.worst fish eye ever. wiped primer off cleaned surface with wax and grease remover and it came out great.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 09:50 AM
AntnyL's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 414
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
The question has come up about cleaning a surface with lacquer thinner, specifically for epoxy primer prep. I have always been told to never use lacquer or other thinners/reducers for this purpose and to do so could lead to major adhesion problems and I assumed it was because of residue that could remain on the surface. I just mentioned this in another thread and was asked why not but to be honest I really don't know for sure. Even before coming to this site I was under the impression that this should never be done and numerous posts here seem to reinforce this but there seems to be little in the way of the reasons why this is a bad idea. Is it really a bad idea or is it ok after all?
Ever since I got smacked upside the head by my high school shop teacher back in 79, I've used Prep-Sol and more recently I use Omni MX190 cleaner. It doesn't evaporate quickly like lacquer thinner, allowing you to wipe the surface a few times with clean cloths to remove the contaminants AND residue from the cleaner. From what I understand, the lacquer thinner will leave a residue of agressive solvent that will disolve the primer/paint that is put over it, not allowing a proper bond to the surface you are trying to cover. The Omni product is not nearly as agressive and dries much slower.

Antny
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 03:50 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
Brians right, except for the resin part????????????????????????

I don't know of resins in thinner or reducers other then basemakers or reactive reducers? Perhaps specialized industries?

If you stick your finger in the reducer and it drys with no stickiness there is no resin in that reducer.????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 03:59 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 56
Posts: 13,443
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,577
Thanked 1,331 Times in 1,153 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Brians right, except for the resin part????????????????????????

I don't know of resins in thinner or reducers other then basemakers or reactive reducers?
"other than basemakers or reactive reducers", That is exactly what I was talking about. To the person who isn't real knowledgable he would never know which is which. So to say that "Enamel and urethane reducers often have resins and other components in them that are designed to be added to the product they were INTENDED to be used with. To put it in a nutshell, buy and use the products recommended by the manufacture of the paint SYSTEM you are using." is a pretty safe way to go.

I said it again, darn it, "FOLLOW THE PAINT COMPANIES RECOMMENDATIONS"

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 04:06 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
"other than basemakers or reactive reducers", That is exactly what I was talking about. To the person who isn't real knowledgable he would never know which is which. So to say that "Enamel and urethane reducers often have resins and other components in them that are designed to be added to the product they were INTENDED to be used with. To put it in a nutshell, buy and use the products recommended by the manufacture of the paint SYSTEM you are using." is a pretty safe way to go.

I said it again, darn it, "FOLLOW THE PAINT COMPANIES RECOMMENDATIONS"

Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually it is a rarity to have a base maker, S+W and Dupont, reactive is one PPG base line.

Why would anyone put a resin in enamel reducer? Whats it go in? That seems strange, but I don't follow the S&W line much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 06:26 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 56
Posts: 13,443
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,577
Thanked 1,331 Times in 1,153 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually it is a rarity to have a base maker, S+W and Dupont, reactive is one PPG base line.

Why would anyone put a resin in enamel reducer? Whats it go in? That seems strange, but I don't follow the S&W line much.
Barry, you are analizing this way too much.

YOU, Barry Kives could walk up to a shelf covered with gallon cans of acid etch reducers, stabilizers, reactive reducers, and what not and simply grab one that would make a "suitable" impromptu surface cleaner. My article is not to train people like yourself. It is for the beginer who doesn't have the years of experiance a guy like yourself would have.

For that person, to explain why every brand an part number does this or that would be pretty much impossible. To make the blanket statement "Enamel and urethane reducers often have resins and other components in them that are designed to be added to the product they were INTENDED to be used with. To put it in a nutshell, buy and use the products recommended by the manufacture of the paint SYSTEM you are using"

That takes zero experiance, zero training, zero knowledge, just buy what the paint manufacturer tells you to and use it.

I have seen reactive clear coat reducers, base coat reducers that "look" just like any other clear solvent. To try to understand and learn it all is far too overwhelming for the average home hobbiest. What you have learned in all the years of working with this stuff can't be taught in a few minutes reading.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 06:50 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Barry, you are analizing this way too much.

YOU, Barry Kives could walk up to a shelf covered with gallon cans of acid etch reducers, stabilizers, reactive reducers, and what not and simply grab one that would make a "suitable" impromptu surface cleaner. My article is not to train people like yourself. It is for the beginer who doesn't have the years of experiance a guy like yourself would have.

For that person, to explain why every brand an part number does this or that would be pretty much impossible. To make the blanket statement "Enamel and urethane reducers often have resins and other components in them that are designed to be added to the product they were INTENDED to be used with. To put it in a nutshell, buy and use the products recommended by the manufacture of the paint SYSTEM you are using"

That takes zero experiance, zero training, zero knowledge, just buy what the paint manufacturer tells you to and use it.

I have seen reactive clear coat reducers, base coat reducers that "look" just like any other clear solvent. To try to understand and learn it all is far too overwhelming for the average home hobbiest. What you have learned in all the years of working with this stuff can't be taught in a few minutes reading.

Brian
-----------------------------------------------------------------

WoW!!
Thanks for the clarification, You can't teach a stump, that is for sure!

So we have two basemakers (with resin) and one reactive, without any resin but a very small amount of ISO and 100's of urethane reducers with no resin.

Now what enamel reducer has a resin in it and used for what?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 07:17 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to title a hot rod Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 189
Wiki Edits: 6

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This may sound crazy but couldn't you add certain self drying (1K) resins to a mild solvent (reducer) to make a rejuvenation or protectant type product? Something that temporaily brings bad paint back to life (at least somewhat) by leaving a thin coating that could wear like a wax. Or to protect good paint for longer than a wax.

Larry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 07:49 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 56
Posts: 13,443
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,577
Thanked 1,331 Times in 1,153 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
-----------------------------------------------------------------

WoW!!
Thanks for the clarification, You can't teach a stump, that is for sure!

So we have two basemakers (with resin) and one reactive, without any resin but a very small amount of ISO and 100's of urethane reducers with no resin.

Now what enamel reducer has a resin in it and used for what?
Barry is back to his old games. You have been being such a good boy giving good information and no BS, but here it goes again. Tell me Barry, what is the end to your game here, to prove me stupid or to show how smart you are?

If you in your brain have a problem with an article that is pretty much self explanatory and easy to comprehend to most everyone who has read it, that is your problem. If you want to analize and attack every single word that I say, have fun. If you can't grasp the concept of what I said, please just keep it to yourself you will avoid looking like a fool.


Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:05 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
I thought I said you were right?

Except the resin stuff and I pay no attention to the S&W stuff, so I wanted to know what resin is in enamel reducer, (maybe there is?) and point out thinners and urethane reducers do not have resins if they do they are called basemakers not Urethane reducers.

If as you say the people are too stupid to know, why post an answer?

Get over your short man syndrome.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:13 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 56
Posts: 13,443
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,577
Thanked 1,331 Times in 1,153 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
I thought I said you were right?

Except the resin stuff and I pay no attention to the S&W stuff, so I wanted to know what resin is in enamel reducer, (maybe there is?) and point out thinners and urethane reducers do not have resins if they do they are called basemakers not Urethane reducers.

If as you say the people are too stupid to know, why post an answer?

Get over your short man syndrome.
Don't call people who don't spend every waking minute learning about this stuff "stupid", that is disrespecful. Not everyone has spent a good part of their life selling this stuff like you to learn all you do. Don't instult them.
There are thousands of guys and gals out in garages around the country who don't need to learn every single detail of every single thing a salesmen like you has learned.

I hope the computer salesman doesn't call you "stupid" when you go in to buy something from him.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
what else in in wax and grease remover besides mineral spirits? Dubz Body - Exterior 47 06-19-2010 01:09 PM
Will lacquer thinner hurt bearing surfaces? surfshark Engine 11 06-22-2008 01:13 AM
what the heck is "blue" lacquer thinner? Skipr Body - Exterior 5 05-25-2006 07:26 PM
Will lacquer thinner remove overspray safely? trifivefan Body - Exterior 3 03-20-2006 07:48 AM
using primer question AdamZx23 Body - Exterior 21 02-16-2005 11:53 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.