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Old 06-03-2013, 04:42 AM
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Wont idle in gear...again

Ok so I sold my Eddy 600cfm and performer intake to upgrade to an RPM and Holley. I got a nice 650 DP from a friend, I know you guys suggested a 750 but the price was right, in nice shape and a Weiand Xcelerator manifold. I know the intake is a single plane but I figured it was worth a shot to try. Now when I drop it into gear it stalls. Never did that with the old setup. Timing is locked out at 36 with ported vacuum advance, big cam stock converter, thats next to be replaced when funds allow. I wasnt the one that cammed the motor. Bought as is. When I get on it, it pulls awesome! Way better than the previous setup. Now I played with the mixture screws, idle, Im out of ideas, just need some more. Maybe Im missing something. Single plane intake cause this?

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Old 06-03-2013, 06:40 AM
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I bet your friend took the money and now has a new Performer RPM and 750 carb.
Sucker.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:16 AM
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Ouch....another lesson learned. So the manifold goes back along with carb. Getting the money back is not a problem. I'll save a few more bucks then for the right combo previously suggested but what's causing this? My guess would be the manifold not building enough low end torque?
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:27 PM
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Timing locked with ported vacuum?

Read back through some of the threads on here. Make sure your throttle plates are set properly. Correct power valve and jet size etc.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danzigs View Post
big cam stock converter
That might be your problem. Big cams don't have much down low and the stock converter would have a low stall.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:57 PM
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I will check the throttle blades. I checked for vacuum leaks and I have none. As for the stock converter, I know it doesnt match well at all. I bought the car as cool project with my boys but funds are tight right now. The car is solid, nice paint, and interior which sold me on this, not the ill matched parts motor. Now with the old set up I had no problem idling in gear. This all started with throwing a 750 demon on it. Even with that carb I still idled fine in gear with the performer intake and pulled nice. So I thought I was upgrading anyway with going with what I bought, all for $100 so I thought I would try. Again it pulls hard, better than ever, just idle in gear sucks. If I bump the idle through the roof it will hold in gear but that sucks.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:38 PM
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Timing locked out at 36
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:25 PM
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You have a vacuum leak.
$86 cure for the cam mismatch Summit cam # SUM-1788

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 06-03-2013 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:30 AM
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Thank you for the cam choice. That would be way better suited for my car. Im upset with myself for not doing it when I had the cam out to check the numbers. As for the vacuum leak, I went around the carb base gasket and intake with propane and noticed no change in idle speed. Could the leak be internal? Intake gaskets not set right?
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:38 AM
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F-bird, should I still run the timing locked out at 36 with that cam you listed?
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:52 AM
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This is my opinion and if I was you I would change the torque converter first as that is your biggest problem right now. I had the same problem when I ran a comp big mutha thumpr cam and it has so much overlap that even with my 3000 plus stall converter it would not idle without making it way super rich and having the carb way out of tune and stuff.

I got a more better lunati voodoo cam and it was excellent after that. If I was in your shoes I would keep the 650 double pumper and get a dual plain high rise intake from edelbrock or weiand as there both good.

You will get more power from the 750 on the top end but for street I myself prefer the 650 cfm range for throttle response and slightly better street manners if the heads are not big flowing such as 200cc and ported way big and if your taking it to the drag strip.

If its a street only hot rod I stick with slighty smaller and leave a little of the top end for nicer bottom end but that is my opinion. I ran a 650 double pumper with a 350 with dart 200cc heads fully ported with a 231/239 @50 535/550 lift lunati roller cam and a 3000/3500 rpm stall converter with a edelbrock dual plain high rise intake and it ran way past 6000rpm with no problems at all and was very strong from 2000 rpm on up with decent street manners. Yeah I left a little off the top end but heck if your not racing it and don't need any last ounce of power then I would stick with what you got.
Eric
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danzigs View Post
F-bird, should I still run the timing locked out at 36 with that cam you listed?
No, that won't be necessary any more.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:48 PM
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I know the converters got to go..just can't swing it now. When I get the bug in my *** to tear into again the cam will be changed to what F-bird posted. I just understand why it ran fine in gear with the same cam and converter with the old intake and carb. I like the Holley and won't go back the Edelbrock but the intake will be changed to an RPM. I just didn't know if this was all because of the single plane manifold. I will check again for vacuum leaks when I get home from work and the throttle blades. Any chance the intake gaskets aren't sealing right? The converter recommended by TCI is close to $500 to keep the lock up. Next year for that. F-bird, with that new Summit cam, what should my initial timing be?
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:16 PM
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Ok update. Car idles good in gear. When I locked my mechanical advance out, I used zip ties. Well, one broke. So I guess when I put everything back together and retimed at 36 initial it would drop when I put it in gear. Took it out and beat on it a little and now I have a nice valve tick coming from number 6 cylinder side. Pulling the cam soon and doing the cam and intake you guys perscribed. Thank you for all the help again guys!
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:42 PM
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What size cam do you have or what are you going to change out too? You should not have to pay 500 bucks for a decent stall converter.

I only paid 300 or so for my 3000/3500 rpm stall converter for a 350 turbo from tci. Jegs and summit both have many different ones you can buy without having to pay that much unless your looking for a 4000 plus stall. I learned the hard way timing can wreck all kinds of issues if not gotten just right.

I was just a little off initial on my timing by just a few degrees but was masked by running vacuum advance from full manifold and giving more did not help etc but that is another story. Get the edelbrock rpm not the airgap one as its just really not better and is a pain if its below 50 degrees outside as I am running one on one of my 350 sbc s10's.

Keep your 650 double pumper and save up for the rpm intake or get a weiand speed warrior as I like it better then the edelbrock rpm as you can locate the rear vacuum fitting more towards the back and it will not interfear with your holley carb fuel bowl.
Eric
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