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-   -   Wool Vs. Foam Pad? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/wool-vs-foam-pad-64832.html)

67goat 06-26-2005 12:15 PM

Wool Vs. Foam Pad?
 
WHAT DO YOU GUYS PREFER WHEN BUFFING ? I USUALLY FINISH WITH 2000 GRIT , THEN BUFF WITH 3M PERFECT IT 3000 WITH A FOAM WHITE WAFFLE PAD, HOW DOES THE 3M WOOL COMPARE? THANK YOU ALL, YOU HAVE BEEN A LOT OF HELP HERE LATELY, MIKE. :confused:

roger1 06-26-2005 12:38 PM

I'll be interested on this one as well.

I have always used Schlegel wool pads. I sand with 1200 last then use a wool pad with 3M Imperial Microfinishing compound and then with 3M Finesse-it II with a another wool pad. I label the pads to make sure I don't get them mixed up and store them in a large zip-lock bag after using to keep them free of dirt.

I have always gotten a fantastic luster this way but have wondered if there is any advantage to the waffle type pads.

The only occasional problem I have is from dirt particles causing a fine scratch that the buffing can't get out. I am not sure if it happens when I'm sanding or when I'm buffing. I have to go back and touch them up with 1200 and rebuff.

baddbob 06-26-2005 09:10 PM

Wool pads are more aggressive than the foam pads and will leave some major swirl marks if not carefull, I've seen swirl marks so deep from heavy compound and a wool pad that the surface needed major resanding. The foam waffle pad works best IMO. Sanding to 2500 or 3000 only requires minimal buffing and makes for a better final product. If you need to remove a lot of material with a buffer you lose control IMO, better to wetsand to almost perfection then finish with some light buffing- this way I'm in more control of the final product. Years ago I would sand with 1000 then buff with a wool pad and 3M's heavy duty compound then step down on compound grit then finished with finesse- thought this was the best way to go, wrong. I've proven it to myself by doing panels side by side and comparing, sand to 2500 or 3000 then buff with a light compound and a foam pad. Try it yourself. Bob

sevt_chevelle 06-26-2005 09:15 PM

I agree with Bob 100%
Final sanding with 3000 grit actually speeds up the process and leaves behind a better finish.
For a newbie with a buffer a wool pad IMO is a bad idea. Much easier to lose control and burn throu. You can burn thou with a foam but its much much more forgiving...Eric

67goat 06-26-2005 09:32 PM

thanks gentlemen, i really appreciate your in put, mike.

jcclark 06-27-2005 05:31 AM

I have always had a problem with scratches when I use a wool pad.
They usually can't be seen until I have the car in my garage under the
fluorescent lights. I've tried everything, cleaning it often, different
compounds, I always got a few scratches that I'd have to compound out.
I liked the wool pad because it's so much faster.
I have finally got a system where I don't use it at all.
I wetsand with 2000, usually by hand and block, then I use a DA, a
4ooo grit pad with water. It's a soft pad by Mirka. I think 3M has the
same thing. After using that the finish is so smooth that a foam buffing
pad with a medium polishing compound brings the shine out so
fast that it's actually faster than the wool pad. And I don't get any scratches.
That 4000 grit gives it a semi-gloss finish that barely needs buffing.

Shakey 06-27-2005 10:17 AM

I have been seeing a lot of posts about buffing lately, but hate to admit I am still not sure exactly what I need to do and what I need to buy. Might be a good topic for a new FAQ from those in the know (hint hint) :thumbup: :D

Unfortunately I am way over what I had originally budgeted for painting this car, so I can't afford to pay someone else, or to buy new $200+ tools to buff it out, unless it is a total waste of time without buying that good of a tool.

I understand that I should wet sand it down with 2500 -3000 grit paper, but then do I need 2 or 3 different compounds and pads to finish it up?

Has anyone tried this buffer and foam pad? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92623

I think the 3M waffle pads are hook and loop right? Would I have to get a new backing pad to use them on that buffer?

Bottom line, I don't want to keep from doing what is needed to finish it up decently, but I also am trying to keep from spending money I don't have to. At this point elbow grease is a lot easier to come by than money. :rolleyes:

I did help a painter friend of mine buff cars while I was between jobs 20+ years ago, but have forgotten most everything about it.

ps I painted the interior and jambs this weekend, and in my eyes they came out great. I do have a few areas where I got it darker than others, but since Pearl looks different depending on the direction you look at it, the differing shades aren't too noticeable. I might try to get a couple of pictures and put them up later.

Bee4Me 06-27-2005 01:54 PM

I have this one.
Buffer
It's held up great for the last year. :D
Most foam pads are hook & loop and you can get a cheaper backing pad than the 3M which will work fine. Most buffers do not come with this pad and I doubt that one does.Mine did so might be worth a phone call to find out.
Getting either the Mirka or 3M Trizac 3000 pads are the ONLY way to go.
They do cost a little extra but if your time and effort are worth anything (I'm kinda lazy someday's) are worth every penny.
After a 1500 I go with the Trizac damp and the actual buffing by machine is a snap compared to stepping up compounds/pads and MORE work.
I rarely use a wool pad any more after getting turned on to this. A white waffle pad with some Perfect-it III regular cut or some Perfect-it 3000 (haven't tried it,but the demo look's great) then some swirl remover for the appropriate color paint,light or dark, with a black waffle pad will give you the BEST possible finish available.
Doing it by hand with 2000 and up will work but the finish from the DA & Trizac is WAY above anything done by hand.

I've learned this the HARD way by tring to cut costs and doing it on the cheap but the FACT is that unless you use the BEST products,You will not get the BEST finish. It costs $$$ for these products and after getting discouraged and working my ***** off broke down and got what I needed a little at a time and if I was to do over again,would NOT waste time and money on the cheap stuff cause it's just wasted capital instead of money well spent.
So what if everyone thinks $360.00 is ALOT for just a spray gun.
After working myself to death sanding 'peel.I've seen the light. :thumbup:
Finally. :rolleyes:

BondoKing 06-27-2005 02:38 PM

Ive been using the foam pads for over a decade now.. dang Im gettin old, anyways I too like the way the wool pad cuts and I have one in the drawer in case I need it, but I think that Mirror glaze pads are far far better pads than the 3M waffle pads.. Foam is the way to go especially for a new guy getting started, lets face it everyone and I mean everyone burns through the clear or ss the first few times they start buffing... It is just the way it is, so if you are using foam pads it takes more effort to burn through...plus they leave much less scratches that you have to worry about getting out..

Jim has hipped me to the 2000# stepped up to the 4000 on the DA... It makes buffing sooooo much easier.. You can compound in 1 pass, then polish and call the customer.... and if you have any heavier scratches that you thought were out, they will show when you use the 4000# and you can fix that before compounding... Just makes for a faster job... I think on overalls it is faster if you start with 800 on the DA and work your way up, for panel repairs I just use Nikkens 2000 wet and then step up to the 4000

Matthew

roger1 07-04-2005 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcclark
I have always had a problem with scratches when I use a wool pad.
They usually can't be seen until I have the car in my garage under the
fluorescent lights. I've tried everything, cleaning it often, different
compounds, I always got a few scratches that I'd have to compound out.
I liked the wool pad because it's so much faster.
I have finally got a system where I don't use it at all.
I wetsand with 2000, usually by hand and block, then I use a DA, a
4ooo grit pad with water. It's a soft pad by Mirka. I think 3M has the
same thing. After using that the finish is so smooth that a foam buffing
pad with a medium polishing compound brings the shine out so
fast that it's actually faster than the wool pad. And I don't get any scratches.
That 4000 grit gives it a semi-gloss finish that barely needs buffing.

I am really interested in trying your process. What DA sanders works best with the Mirka pads? Do any come with the hook and loop backing needed for these pads?
And, how do you handle the contours and tighter curves on the body?

baddbob 07-04-2005 06:49 PM

Roger, the mirka pads are hook and loop, and they have a foam built into them for going over contours. These are used wet. I think they are called abralon? pads. I didn't know they were available in 4000, 2000 was the finest grit available when I was using them. I've been using 3M 3000 lately.

Found them on the web for ya-abralon

Oh, and another very important thing to remember when using any of these DA systems- make absolutely sure your DA, hose ends, and hose is perfectly clean before use, small particles of abrasive or dirt from using these items in regular body work will ruin your day if they fall from the tool or hose and land on the hood and get ground into the fresh paint. One tiny piece of anything. Most people that sand and buff for a living have a dedicated DA for colorsanding.

roger1 07-06-2005 05:09 PM

Thanks Bob. I think the idea of a dedicated DA for this purpose makes sense.

Are there any 6" DA's that come with the hook & loop backing?
Or, do you have to buy the the hook and loop backing separately and where do you find them?

baddbob 07-06-2005 09:44 PM

You'll have to buy the DA pad seperately, your abrasives supplier should have one. The Abralon discs were about $2 each when I was buying them, 25 to a box if I remember right. Bob

Paintguy 07-07-2005 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddbob
Most people that sand and buff for a living have a dedicated DA for colorsanding.

That's one thing I was thinking all the way through reading this topic. I've found out the hard way that using your 'regular' DA is not a good idea :( so I now keep 'clean' one just for this work.

I'm in a small, fast-paced production shop, and it's surprising just how much time the Abralon pads have saved us.

edselman59 04-13-2013 06:57 AM

I figure I would update this thread. There is a very straight forward way of buffing clear coat.

Industry standard for professionals. Used to fix bumpers all the way to repairing paint defects on airplanes.

The polishes also come in pints in case you don't want to get full quarts.



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