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Worthwhile upgrade?

12K views 40 replies 6 participants last post by  bygddy 
#1 ·
Went to pick up cam after work today, Dad building the young lads motor with him for an 85 monte and they changed direction to a Turbo motor midway through the build, I went to buy his new XE284 cam, but it turns out it a 292H, with lifters in box brand new, they offered it to me for 150$ as it wasn't the cam the lad thought it was. I told them I would sleep on it and call tommorow....I'm already hearing the 284 was missmatched based on the assumption my little 305 heads don't flow....but it seems the same rules for set up will apply, locked timing etc etc....so is it worth the cash and with 411's and. 3000 stall will it be significantly stronger then the stock converter and wee little lunati I have now? Have to let him know by lunch time tommorow so any input would be appreciated....
 
#2 ·
I'm not entirely clear on what you are trying to say. Are you asking if you should use the 292H cam or keep what you have?

stock 305 heads can't flow enough to support even a 268xe cam so I wouldn't even consider the 292H, but people have made mismatched engines run okay in the past. If I were you I'd look at a MUCH smaller cam- around 215 duration at .050" if you're running stock 305 heads.
 
#3 ·
Is it for a 305 a 292h can be a really big cam on the small bore engines. It may also have way too much overlap for most turbo apps.

I love big cams but for small engine its not going to make any power under 3k rpm. Then it will only come alive long enough to run out of flow.

Why 58 cc on a turbo motor. A 2.02 valve head with large chambers would be better. You can always turn up the boost its hard to turn down the compression.

Race car/street car?
I don't think a 2.02" valve head will fit on a 305 block bore. I think a 1.94" might be the largest it will take without notching the block's bore.
 
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#4 ·
Sorry for the confusion, 77vette, 350 with stock flattops, heavily ported 416 casting 305 heads, 194/150, performer rpm, 750 dp, 3000 stall, 411 gear...currently has a small lunati 214/224 , 443/465
Heads were ported using any and everything I could find on here from f-bird and he knows his stuff very well. The motor pulls very hard to 6000 as it sits currently. But I will be installing the converter in the spring and wanted more cam at the same time. The price seems really good for the 292 but I know the heads, even worked, aernt ideal, but is it still going to be a large improvement that's worth doing?
 
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#9 ·
The Xe284H-10 is a better cam for your purpose. As far as being a good match to your combo stop
listening to people who no nothing about cams or ported 305 heads.
Don't ask people on the internet how much power you will make. They don;t know.
That what they make dynos and race tracks for.

The 292H magnum is not a bad cam. but....Id rather see you use a better solid lifter cam if you want
to go that big on the cam. It will work a lot better. Don;t be intimidated by street solid lifter cams.
They are not hard ro deal with at all.
Your friend is not the only guy with a cam for sale. You can buy a new cam for $150.
In a hyd the XE284H-10 would have been a good choice.
Yes your ported big valve 305 heads will work very well with it . If you did a decent job on porting them they actually flow pretty good. The only way to know how thye turned out os to run it down the track, stick it on a dyno or flow test the cylinder heads.

You are on your way to a good combo for the street for your vette. Don;t fuggg it all up now.
A Isky Z-27 cam would work very well. #201027. Another cam I like even better for this combo is the Lunati 401A3LUN cam. A nice street solid cam that will run nicer than the comp 292H. You will like it better overall.
good with your ported heads, good wiht the 3/4 shorty headers good with the 3000 stall and 4.11's.



The comp 292H needs a higher stall converter. 3500++.

Thats what I would do if not the Comp XE284H-10 cam. The comp Xe284H-10 cam is the biggest I would go with the 3000 stall converter.

So a hydraulic cam with 244º duration is in the same ballpark as a solid cam with 238º duration? yea right. A comparable hydraulic cam would have about 225º duration which is used with fully ported 305 heads would actually be about right.

So yes, the 401A3LUN cam would be a pretty good match (if the heads are ported)- the 292H cam isn't even close.

BTW, I'm sure F-bird knows this, but for those that don't you can't compare hydraulic and solid cams directly at 0.050" for the fact that solid cams run lash, for your typical .020" lash you need to subtract around 12 degrees to get an equal hydraulic duration- for more lash you subtract more duration for less lash you subtract less.
 
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#12 ·
Lmao.....
Its not fear, I'm not afraid of breaking anything, my junk gets abused and driven like it owes me money....this is more of a cost situation....what are solidlifters and cam worth etc etc...I have to admit, valvetrain sounds are cool, when there supposed to be therelol....I just have no idea what lifters, cost, etc etc.....its more ignorance then fear....
 
#14 ·
If this is primarily a street driven vehicle that isn't street or track raced for money, you will kick yourself every time you drive it w/almost all of the cams mentioned on this thread. The cam in it now is just a little smaller than what will make an outstanding ride for everything except the 1/2 of 1% of the time that it's at WOT all the way through the gears.

You said yourself it runs good to 6K rpm, so what is it you hope to gain by going w/a cam several magnitudes more radical than what is in it now? Because I can tell you from experience that an over cammed engine is a real turd on the street. Unless you are taking it to the track this is a real waste.

I see this all too often here. There are max acceleration combos (high compression, big lumpy cams, loose torque converters, low rear gears) that when driven on the street- where there's no traction and LE to contend with- are just no fun other than the fender rattling idle.:rolleyes:

Then there are all around combos that have good torque below 4K rpm and do not require the other less street friendly parts. You are heading towards a max acceleration combo- and for the vast majority of the time and for the vast majority of the drivers out there, this will not be any fun at all on a regular basis driven on the street. Just being the devil's advocate here, giving a bit of a reality check. If you're fine w/the downsides, then go for it and good luck. And save up for a decent set of heads. At least then the cam can give you what it really has.
 
#16 ·
If this is primarily a street driven vehicle that isn't street or track raced for money, you will kick yourself every time you drive it w/almost all of the cams mentioned on this thread. The cam in it now is just a little smaller than what will make an outstanding ride for everything except the 1/2 of 1% of the time that it's at WOT all the way through the gears.

You said yourself it runs good to 6K rpm, so what is it you hope to gain by going w/a cam several magnitudes more radical than what is in it now? Because I can tell you from experience that an over cammed engine is a real turd on the street. Unless you are taking it to the track this is a real waste.

I see this all too often here. There are max acceleration combos (high compression, big lumpy cams, loose torque converters, low rear gears) that when driven on the street- where there's no traction and LE to contend with- are just no fun other than the fender rattling idle.:rolleyes:

Then there are all around combos that have good torque below 4K rpm and do not require the other less street friendly parts. You are heading towards a max acceleration combo- and for the vast majority of the time and for the vast majority of the drivers out there, this will not be any fun at all on a regular basis driven on the street. Just being the devil's advocate here, giving a bit of a reality check. If you're fine w/the downsides, then go for it and good luck.
Because that's exactly what I enjoy in a "toy".....here's my take, I have this car cause its loud, bright, slightly obnoxious, and fun as hell.....yep, admittadly there's a bit of "thmpr cam" mentality, I like rolling into the Fri night cruise sounding mean and nasty, I like how it feels when i hit the key and its hard to get it warmed up, trying to get it to idle, snarly....I love it....but where I differ from the thmpr CAm crowd, i hit our local dragstrip cruise night often, right or wrong I hit the Fri night street stuff occasionally, hell, I have a quarter mile marked on a back road close to home that I regularly stop all by myself, and run it till the shift light comes on in 3rd. Just for me, all alone, cause its awesome....so I want it to run as good as it sounds.....I like maximum effort, im OK with piss poor gas mileage, a rough idle, a big converter, because its not a daily driver....its my "toy".....its supposed to be a little bit of effort......its supposed to give me goose bumps and a giant ego every time I drive it......and it does....
Hell, my DD is a lowered grand marquis, with single chamber flows, hypertech programmer, gears, and a home built shift kit. I dont "do" boring....
When i need quiet or smooth, I have the wife's charger....
That's my rant......and just my humble opinion...
 
#17 ·
That rant not withstanding, if I could afford it, I would have a full size late 60's impala, with a low compression SBC, fuel injection and twins,....having 800hp, a smooth idle, and a sleeper vibe is also hugely cool....but I haven't figured out how to make people give me money for absolutely no reason yet.
 
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#21 ·
Its all good Bill.....I daily drove (summer time) my Malibu wagon, 355, T5 and 411's...and for me, it lost some of its appeal....I learned that leaving it in the garage 2 or 3 days a week just made getting home, or the weekends so much more fun looking forward to jumping in it and hearing it come to life.....I'm a little different then most tho, I recognize that lol.
 
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#23 ·
While the Howards cams are really really really good , and you can go to their site and see all about them
and that one is one of the good ones (needs the springs). , I'm sticking to my recomendation,
(It suits the 3000 stall and short headers better.)
on the specific Lunati/UD harold cam for your car. Its the right cam for your car.
Don't car if its a few more dollars to buy. You can use anybodys solid lifters on it. Isky, Lunati, Howards
Crane, I don;t care.

(by saying "Rule the Streets" be clear I do all my racing at the track. I insist all my friends do to... And we do.
But we do enjoy the cruise scene, which is very active here)( And the track is never too far away and always accommodating)

Howards Cams Another really good camshaft company. IMHO
Perfect, like I said, i trust your judgment, will call Monday and get some pricing....and are solids harder on valve springs then a hyd cam?
 
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#31 ·
Well the heads are the obvious limiting factor here, and I think F'bird has more confidence in the OP's "ported 305 heads" than I do. Doing a good job of porting those heads to get you at least 230cfm and a 175+ cc runner volume takes a LOT of time even if you know what you're doing.

If they're as bad as I think they might be even the 401A3 cam is too big.

I'd like to see a better set of heads used, but it is what it is.
 
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#32 ·
Heads will be coming off regardless, and yes, I absolutely went deep into the port, and wasn't shy at all, I was more then a little concerned I was going to punch through something lol....but once they are off I will revisit my work and if more is needed then I have nothing but time. OK, I'm going to start back at page one and look at the lunati again. At this point I have not enough experience to assume I know what I'm talking about when it comes to cam choice with these heads..and I know you do know what your talking about.
 
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#33 ·
For the record, earlier in the summer I had run it on one of those gtech dyno things, I'm aware they aernt super accurate, but they repeatedly had me at 112mph and one at 114 which I know is horsesht and not accurate....but how close they are I don't know. 5mph high from what I can find on the interwebs from other users, which would put me near 107mph....still seems high....but till the track opens it is what it is. And yah, I know the headers are not ideal.....and will likely get changed at some point for an under car system, or a real hooker long tube sidepipes style.....
 
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#34 ·
No, he's a pretty tight-assed SOB, I wouldn't count on any donations.

However, there are some better heads on craigslist and can usually be picked up for less than $100 a set.

Vortecs, camel humps, converted LT1s, etc.

Then there's the import head market.
 
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#35 ·
Lol.....I have the same argument daily at my shop with one of my apprentices....he runs procomp alum on his regal with a 355 roller cam.......I have looked through the notes on his build. And he is sitting around around 10.2 compression as it sits. So his next genius idea is a 4-71 blower.....wich I love the idea, just not with his compression, or his little 670 vacuum sec Carb. He was all bashing my junk yard stuff today....and I tried to explain, that without race gas, his compression is going to be too high to utilize the blower for what it can actually do. By the time he takes enough timing and boost out of it to stop it from eating itself. I'm still going to be faster on junk or used parts....his 700 trans, his 373 gear....its a great fair ground cruiser....and his procomps are not newer better style, they are a few years old when flow and quality control was worse then it is today.....ohhhh....I can't wait till spring lol.
 
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#37 ·
That's actually the current plan and what I'm saving up for. The used motor I picked up I'm going to go with some cheapish forged slugs, stock crank and rods, arp through out, and find a set of heads cheap and bolt on a blower....likely take some gear out of it due to the giant torque curve and go run 11's for very little cash......but for now, I'm going to use that lunati you listed, I priced it today and shipped to my door I'm looking at 440$ taxes in with lifters....so that kinda sucks lol....but I know there are some places I can't cheap out on. I hope to hell cam and converter with a 275 drag radial gets me a 12 anything lol....then I will spray it into a high 11 and be happy as a pig in sht...!
 
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