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Old 03-25-2005, 11:11 AM
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Wow, taken by surprise at my local paint supplier... What to do?

Hello-
In preparation for my tax refund, I went down to my local paint store (they sell PPG btw) to ask a few beginner questions and to get an idea on pricing and such. I'm gonna do a home paint job on my 70 Cougar, and was going to go with their single stage Delstar, black. I didn't have the foggiest idea about what primer to use, and I was planning on purchasing for the paint and primer one of the entry level guns by Sharpe or DeVilbiss that came with a couple tips and such. The car's in pretty good shape, pretty straight, just some surface rust to deal with (stripping it to metal anyway, theres not a good finish to spray over now), but other than that very little body work is required (I'll be painting the car in pieces).

Now, back to the paint shop. Lady I talked to was super nice, and stood there and answered my dummy questions for 1/2 hour (said she'd rather answer questions than have me do a bad job). But I was REAL surprised when I told here what I was planning on buying and what she suggested instead. She didn't try to sell me the farm, quite the opposite.

When I mentioned that I was planning on getting at $100-$200 beginner gun and doing both primer and paint with the same gun, she said that I would be better off getting 2 of their "cheap" HVLP guns (they were nice lookin' little guns, but an off-brand... Probably roll of the same line as 1/2 dozen other guns) for about $40 each, one with a primer tip and one with the paint tip. She said they'd lay down a nice finish and I wouldn't be spraying both through the same gun.

Like I said I am/was completely in the dark about primer (still don't know much). When we started discussing it, she suggested that I use the much cheaper lacquer primer, that it would work fine for me. I didn't ask about epoxy primers or sealers or anything, forgot.

On the subject of paint, when I mentioned that I was looking at the Delstar single stage urethane in black, she said that Omni SS urethane in this particular instance would be fine. She said it would take a bit more but since it costs less than 1/2 as much it wouldn't be an issue (Since I'm doing this in my garage and price IS an issue, BC/CC is out... Costs too much for me and with the extra number of layers sprayed that I'd have a larger window of time for stuff to settle on the car).

Needless to say, I was pretty surprised by the shop. To get told that they suggest products that cost a noticible amount less was quite a shock (but if it turns out to be true a welcome surprise, that leaves more money for other things). But is the advice I got accurate, or am I headed for disaster?

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Old 03-25-2005, 01:49 PM
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Not many will do that!

Someone that would, was it Mary in Beckley. WV??
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:24 PM
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Yeah, I don't even know how to react when I go into a store and they actually recommend CHEAPER items than I was expecting. It was a welcome change, which is good b/c their the only supplier near here.

No, it was Automotive Color Technology in Fairmont, I'm in the northern chunk of the state. I can't remember her name, I have a card somewhere I think, she even gave me all the data sheets for the stuff that she recommended.
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Old 03-25-2005, 04:40 PM
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Don't be too quick to poo poo the Omni line. I was told by a PPG rep that it is the exact same paint as PPG (off the same line), just with the Omni label.

Vince
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Old 03-25-2005, 04:41 PM
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OMNI SS is not a good option IMO. Their black just flat out sucks!!!
Some times I found that spraying omni was more money then using regular DBC basecoat because of the HUGE difference in the number of coats it needed to cover.
I used to work at a shop that did tons of work for a local dodge dealer. On all their trade ins/used cars they wanted cheap and they got OMNI. But on the new cars regular collision work it was regular DBC basecoat then good stuff. I can think of about 5 colors that WILL cost more in OMNI then DBC because they lack coverage.

OMNI MTK single stage IMO doesnt look good looks even worse when buffed. personally Id spring the extra coin and get DCC
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:54 PM
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I would not under any circumstances use a cheap lacquer primer under Omni or any other PPG product and I can't for the life of me understand why she would have recommended it.

Go to PPG's Home Page and look under the product information heading for the "P" sheets for whatever paint you are thinking of using. Those product sheets (P sheets) will list the acceptable primers for each top coat. Pick a paint line and use one of the primers that are recommended for that line and no other. Today's paints are marvels of modern chemistry and compatibility with something that the paint wasn't designed to work with can be a big problem.

When it comes to Omni, although it is cheaper it doesn't contain the amount of solids the more expensive lines do so in most cases it will take more paint to get the same coverage. For an everyday driver, (not show quality) Omni will be fine but if you're looking for a really durable finish with that show quality depth, go with a good quality BC/CC system.

Good luck.

Centerline
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:09 PM
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try these
http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/
alsacorp.com
they have some decent prices.but as stated ealier, ppg dbc is very good paint,and all clear aint that much.i paint all mine in the garage, just clean it good and wet it down,learn to wet sand and buff
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302/Z28
Don't be too quick to poo poo the Omni line. I was told by a PPG rep that it is the exact same paint as PPG (off the same line), just with the Omni label.

Vince
************************************************** ***
Vince, I think you got called away and did not finish what you were writting?

I have read enough of your posts to know you know what your talking about, BUT tell me this, did you believe what he said?
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:31 PM
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NEVER use lacquer primer under anything but lacquer. you should be using a 2k urethane primer or epoxy if over bare metal. i have never used any ppg products so i'm not sure of the prices but being that they are a major paint manufacturer i'm sure they are in line with the others which means well over priced!! since you are doing a black paintjob and if you want to step up to a bc/cc without breaking the bank but also way premium top quality products then southern polyurethanes came out with their black bascoat which is awesome and is super black. runs $69 a gallon. they also have your 2k primer for about the same price and the universal clear runs about $75 a gallon (sprayable). alot of people on this board use their stuff and i dont think you will find one that has anything negative to say about it. you can order from www.bakerpbe.com and shipping is reasonable.
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:51 PM
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I have tried bakerspb website and they require a password on the jobber side. Do you have one?
Thanks
jan
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
************************************************** ***
Vince, I think you got called away and did not finish what you were writting?

I have read enough of your posts to know you know what your talking about, BUT tell me this, did you believe what he said?
The guy has given a lot of our club members some very good tips on the PPG line. I trust what he told us about Omni. The only Omni product I have used so far is the polyester primer MX 241, with zero problems. I would also never use a lacquer primer under any polyurethane top coat, can't understand why it was recommended either. I plan on sticking with the PPG DBC and PPG clear on my project though.

Vince
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:39 PM
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The Omni line is not at all comparable to PPG's other paint lines. There are a few good products in it though, The SV urethane surfacer for example works really well- high build, fast cure, good sanding and no shrinkage problems. The 2-1 clear works OK. The basecoat colors are very thin and color limited. The MTK singlestage isn't as durable as Deltron Concept or Global. Don't use laquer primer, with all the good quality economical urethane primers available there is no reason to use laquer. The prices SPI is advertising sure look good. Bob
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antiquecar
I have tried bakerspb website and they require a password on the jobber side. Do you have one?
Thanks
jan
your clicking on the wrong thing. dont click on jobber page, click on the manufactuer name. it will open up a page with all the prices. you cant order directly from the website, get the 800 # off the homepage and call them with the part#s or products you want. southern poly's website will explain all their products and part #'s a little better then call baker pbe with the order.
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcleanr6
NEVER use lacquer primer under anything but lacquer. you should be using a 2k urethane primer or epoxy if over bare metal. i have never used any ppg products so i'm not sure of the prices but being that they are a major paint manufacturer i'm sure they are in line with the others which means well over priced!! since you are doing a black paintjob and if you want to step up to a bc/cc without breaking the bank but also way premium top quality products then southern polyurethanes came out with their black bascoat which is awesome and is super black. runs $69 a gallon. they also have your 2k primer for about the same price and the universal clear runs about $75 a gallon (sprayable). alot of people on this board use their stuff and i dont think you will find one that has anything negative to say about it. you can order from www.bakerpbe.com and shipping is reasonable.
Wow, thanks for the heads up about the Southern Polyurethanes. Thats the first and only BC/CC system that I could afford, I think I may just go that way. Looks like I'm back to researching, I know nothing about BC/CC, I was only considering single stage. I was planning on using ZeroRust on the underbelly and interior (saw the raving over it at autobodystore.com), do a gallon of clear and a gallon of base do a whole car? And the SP 2K primer has a real nice price on it too, looks like I'll be using their whole system too. Would I want to use a coat of epoxy primer between the 2K and the bare metal? Thanks again for the link, I like the idea of the BC/CC but just couldn't swing it into the budget, looks like I might be able to after all .

Anyone have any advice about my gun choice? Would I be better off with a cheap primer and a cheap topcoat gun, or one gun that costs twice as much (something like the entry level Sharpe or a Finishline)?
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Old 03-26-2005, 05:21 AM
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bare metal needs a coat of epoxy before using any 2k urethane primer, however the turbo primer can be sprayed direct to metal and would save you a step but if you can fit it in your budget i would still epoxy the car before the 2k. barry might be able to give some input here on what he recommends. when it comes to tools, i always try to buy the best that i can even if its something i only plan on using a few times. it really depends on what you decide to do as far as primer. primer is usually much thicker and needs a larger tip size. try to find a gun kit that comes with a couple different tip sizes. i have seen the devilbiss finishline 3 come like this. its not the best gun but its much better than the asian knockoffs and will come with everything you need. other guys here might be able to better adives you on whats available since i have not been in the market for a gun in a while. if you cant find a kit then you can get away with a cheap gun for the primer but you will need something halfway decent for the clear.
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