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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2012, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
Soooo your point? You like Magnaflow better. Great! That's called a personal choice and is part of business models and competition.

Now, those alluded to test results - please post any unbiased test results across a spectrum of engines and vehicles along with different exhaust systems.

My point is I was surprised to see one of the most popular and widely used mufflers to actually be the poorest performer of them all. It wasn't my article buddy! I merely said I like the Magnaflow mufflers I have in my system now and based on test results they are a better performing muffler. The original poster was asking for opinions on exhaust systems biased or unbiased based on performance. You posted biased information from Flowmasters test results. I'm sure if a different engine was used with different diameter exhaust pipe and different mufflers with X or H pipes installed at different parts of the system tested by a different exhaust manufacturer different results would be found. Why you trying to pick a fight about my post when everyone else has posted up opinions and what they are running? Stick with your sheep and Guinness

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2012, 05:53 PM
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Tasca Ford

My 1964 Tasca Ford had a tuned H pipe before and after custom exhaust, the mufflers were under the driver and passengers seats. When they wore out the garage put stock system back on with he mufflers under the quarter panels with ho H pipes. I could really feel the loss of power it was big. That's when i became a fan of H pipes, seems the X pipe looks like it would be more costly as I can make my own H pipes.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2012, 07:19 PM
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'x'

5 cents worth. I have 2.5" system on the 67 with flowmasters fitted behind an"x" and the sound is a combination of a deep rumble at idle and a raspy crackly response at around 3000rpm using a 347 stroker. Suits me for a Sunday driver,but each to their own. The entire interior is dyna -matted to reduce exhaust noise so the radio can be heard. As Dave says, the dyno is the only proof for technically proving H or X performance figures. Every build has different space limitations for either system.
Cheers
Al.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southshore30
My point is I was surprised to see one of the most popular and widely used mufflers to actually be the poorest performer of them all. It wasn't my article buddy! I merely said I like the Magnaflow mufflers I have in my system now and based on test results they are a better performing muffler. The original poster was asking for opinions on exhaust systems biased or unbiased based on performance. You posted biased information from Flowmasters test results. I'm sure if a different engine was used with different diameter exhaust pipe and different mufflers with X or H pipes installed at different parts of the system tested by a different exhaust manufacturer different results would be found. Why you trying to pick a fight about my post when everyone else has posted up opinions and what they are running? Stick with your sheep and Guinness
First of all - I am not your "buddy"

Next, when you make a statement such as you did, at least back it up with a source. Mine was posted with the caveat that this was Flowmasters testing and others I had seen were similar. I still haven't seen your information. Again, and I repeat , 'QUOTE' That's called a personal choice and is part of business models and competition.UNQUOTE.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:59 PM
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Irelands Child,

Not to interrupt you guys "discussion" (LOL), but just wanted to say that that is one good looking chassis setup!!

I do have one question about the 2nd picture; what are the large "hose clamps" around the mufflers? Are they securing heat shields?

Tom
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:47 PM
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No kidding your not my buddy, In the "English" we understand on this side of the pond that was loaded with sarcasm, but good catch. Did anybody else back up their statements with a source? No, they simply threw their two cents in about what they are running but you chose to jump down my throat for whatever reason then told me to supply a unbiased source when your entire post was based on a test by Flowmaster. Go ahead and tell me and everyone else that is not "unbiased" information. I simply said I am past the noise of Flowmasters and chose to run Magnaflow mufflers now.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:26 PM
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First of all, let me say that I'm just "guessing"...

Secondly, from my little experience at Level 10 Transmission I know that if you ask a tuner, the first thing he would probably ask is "What's your application?" "How is your vehicle configured?" and "What are you going to use it for?" "What performance gains are you interested in?" They might even ask you to fill out a questionnaire.

FOR EXAMPLE, with regards to speed: Let's just say your going to use your car for some racing on the track every now and then. And that you like going fast around the neighborhood and the highway every now and again. Also, that you're not really interested in beating everyone down in the 1/4 mile but you're more interested in a better 0-60 time.

If an H pipe is just 2 straight pipes connected by a cross-member then I suspect the H pipe exhaust does better for higher rpm/mph applications. This is because the exhaust paths aren't interrupted; it goes straight out from the headers to the cats and out through the muffler and exhaust pipes. So if my guess is correct, you might get a better 1/4 mile time from an H-pipe.

The X pipe configuration looks like the exhaust is slower to exit because the exhaust gases run into each other on the way out. Perhaps you might get better low end torque there (and perhaps the better 0-60 time.)

So from the little scenario I just made up, I might go with the X pipe, if my guess about the better low-end torque is true.

To be sure you have to get solid numbers. If there's a dyno and a graph you should check out the power band comparing the 2 different configurations. It will show torque and horsepower as it progresses throughout the rpm range and from that you can make a decision.

For other things like what kind of noise it makes and such things you need to do yourself solid and do lots of research. There's lots of folks on youtube who posted their exhaust pipe installations and what kind of sound they make.

Good luck. I hope you make the choice that's right for you!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2012, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texastomeh
Irelands Child,

Not to interrupt you guys "discussion" (LOL), but just wanted to say that that is one good looking chassis setup!!

I do have one question about the 2nd picture; what are the large "hose clamps" around the mufflers? Are they securing heat shields?

Tom
Back to the discussion

Thanks on the chassis set up.

Yes, those clamps are for shields. With the rails so close and with as many parts under there, fuel and brake lines along with me were getting too warm on hot days. A new photo without as much dust and giving better detail of the 'H' pipe:

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2012, 09:06 AM
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The links I provided in post #9 was to provide the OP with info for what he asked, so he could draw his own conclusion. The first link is actually from an SA book titled: How to Build Max-Performance Pontiac V-8s. Which is in the exhaust section. Maybe should have stated see pages 2-3 on link.........
With countless different engine combos your results can vary.
OP you could ask dyno operators/engine builders what they have come across with results. Also some exhaust manufacturers build both types and see what there results are.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2012, 10:18 AM
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Gonna' interrupt again (LOL)!!

Quote:
A new photo without as much dust and giving better detail of the 'H' pipe:
SWEEEEET!!

An old hotrodder's rule-of-thumb that I have heard several times over the years, is to:

(1) Install the exhaust system without the H pipe;
(2) Spray paint the pipes for a couple of feet aft of the header dumps;
(3) Run the engine until the paint begins to burn off;
(4) Install the H pipe right where the paint started to burn!

That's all well and okay, but only if there is room to install it at the indicated location. But, it does seem like that would at least indicate a good "starting point" to work from.

OKAY - back to the fracas!!

Tom
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2012, 09:25 PM
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I'm new here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Burton
Just happened to see an interview with the founder of Heart Throbs mufflers on Stacey David's Gears. He described tests of H vs X and reported that they got consistently higher HP with H pipes.
WHOOPIE, my first response to a thread!! I'm just glad I read down this far because I was going to refer to the same episode of Stacey David's GEARS. In my opinion; the H pipe is easier to set-up, gives more ground clearance and has a better exhaust note than the X pipe.. To me the X pipe is for the higher revving OHC small block V8's and tuner/import V8's.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texastomeh
Gonna' interrupt again (LOL)!!



SWEEEEET!!

An old hotrodder's rule-of-thumb that I have heard several times over the years, is to:

(1) Install the exhaust system without the H pipe;
(2) Spray paint the pipes for a couple of feet aft of the header dumps;
(3) Run the engine until the paint begins to burn off;
(4) Install the H pipe right where the paint started to burn!

That's all well and okay, but only if there is room to install it at the indicated location. But, it does seem like that would at least indicate a good "starting point" to work from.

OKAY - back to the fracas!!

Tom
I have also heard this, dont know or understand the science behind it

I wonder if someone could explain this to us? right/wrong or whatever?
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
I have also heard this, dont know or understand the science behind it

I wonder if someone could explain this to us? right/wrong or whatever?

On cars running tuned headers you add a couple of feet of dump to your collector pipe the same diameter as your collector and paint it Drive the car through the 1/4 mile at high rpm and At the highest scavenge point of your exhaust pulses(The highest velocity) where the exhaust just starts to slow down is the point the paint burns because the flow is slowing enough to cause a heat build up!!! you cut the dump at the center of that burn in the paint! the point in the dump pipe that you cut is pretty close to maximum scavenging effect! A longer pipe will cause the exhaust velocity to slowdown and kill the scavenging effect of your exhaust!! A shorter pipe wont enable the exhaust pulses to reach max velocity also killing the scavenging effect!!! It usually averages out to about 18 inches!!

I never heard of this working on street exhaust of any kind!!! H pipes & X pipes are designed to increase lower rpm response and level out resonance in exhaust noise by merging and deleting (Smoothing or integrating) the exhaust pulses and actually slowing down the The scavenge effect! on a drag car their just extra weight LOL

Its a back yard method, The best method is the dino and different length pipes!!!

That's all from experience in cutting a lot of dumps at the dragway LOL

The gentleman mentioned earlier he could feel the difference of the exhaust in his chest that was resonence !!!



Jester

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2013, 09:56 AM
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Arrrgh!

Hey everyone!

I have a '66 Galaxie 500 w/a 289; my cam is as follows:
Lift: .448"/.472"
Adv. Duration: 262/272
My car is a cruiser, I'm going to be running duals from factory manifolds & I have no plans to do any kind of racing, but I also want to get as much power out of what I have; so which one do I want to go with?

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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2013, 06:37 PM
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x pipe.

My 347 Mustang has an x pipe , with flowmasters with a 2.5 inch dia system. Performance data as posted by Ireland's Child says it all. They have done the techniclal research for you, so go with what is said there. As far as sound goes it comes down to personal choice.
I had a standard 302 Windsor powered Ford years ago with a twin system and glass packed mufflers with an H pipe. It sounded very quiet and not intrusive.
On the other hand the 347 ( stroked out 302) has a mild cam and sounds quite raspy and louder, but the radio can still be heard.
Its your choice. Have a listen to others.
Cheers.
Al.
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