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Old 12-10-2008, 10:26 PM
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Your take on a car trade dispute.

Well I traded my el camino localy for a 80's chevy truck. My ad I put in the paper read.


"I have a good project that is well on its way to be finnished. The car was built in the MO Fairfax plant in january 72' . It has working power steering tilter steering colum with SS steering wheel. posi traction rear end Freshly rebuilt 307 four bolt main with carter 650 carb on eldelbrock high rise intake. Very very clean interior. New Firestone tires on rally wheels. Has extra fenders extra doors extra hood and for a extra $50 I will throw in a late model 350 block with one piece main seal and all the mains. This car can burn rubber has full tank of gas! Has 60,000 origonal miles and this hasn't been rolled over . Clean and clear title too! "

I wanted (rounded) $1500 roughly for the elco
Fellow wanted $3000 for the truck


Some back ground on the car I disclosed to the person wanting to trade. I drove it home and it smoked some but the guy I bought it from said it was from the late model 350 that blew and sent all the oil down the tail pipe but not to worry about it and the more I drove it it would just burn and blow the oil out and since it had a "freshly" rebuilt engine there should be no problem he said he bought it off craigslist he said. I had good reason to believe it was a freshly rebuilt engine. This is because it had freshpaint on the block heads timing cover and when I pulled the dipstick it had some white lithium rebuild grease on it and the oil looked ok he said he had been driving it ocassionaly and breaking it in so being a trustful person I take his word now relising I should see if he had a rebuild recepiet (I learned this today I am a body man not a mechanic I don't like grease and don't know much at all about engines) So in september when I buy the car it is moved to the shop parking lot and it sits then it gets towed to my house since it was not tagged or insured so I didn't want to run the risk of getting stopped by the law driving without any insurance and at my house it sits I take some parts off of it and start a piece by slow piece restoration making patches .All I really get done in my free time is one fender fixed and some rust cut out and bondo picked out.

A fellow contacted me and said he had a truck that he is very interested in in trading. The car has been picked clean of all the bondo I could find at this point and I was going to restore but another circumstance made me sell the car so there is nothing really hidden by bondo or at least it was done very well and my magnet didnt pick up on it.The fellow comes by and likes what he sees he is a mechanic and looks at it says yeah this is definately what he wants to do and over the weekend he meets me at my house .That morning I load all the spare parts for it start it up and then shut it off.He asks me if I think it will drive reliably and I honestly tell him all I have driven it was from about 15 miles to were it sits now and it drove great on the highway with no shakes.So the fellow gets to my house and we trade the titles and head out. I had a extra hood we put in the back of my truck and I follow him to his house/shop and I drop off the parts we shake hands check out is expertly restored GM car and another project and he can work some magic on cars. My Elco was RRRRUUUFFF on the body but it had a exelent interior and frame so it was a project I was going to undertake. It had a 307 the worst SBC ever prodced from what I hear after buying the car so I buy a 350 block I was going to have sent away and built. I offer to sell this with the car and when I got it rebuilt I was going to send the 307 with it for the shop to use as parts on anything they could for my 350 since they seem to be pretty reliable and strong.



This is were the dispute starts I get a text from the fellow saying in a nut shell "you lied to me the engine is shot it needs rings it smokes like a oil fire you can expect to play people like that with out payback I thought I could trust you but I guess not you didn't seem like that kind of person." I tell him here is **** the guy I bought the car from and did all the engine instalation and engine related work I have had nothing to do with it this is his number I didn't know I trusted his word and just passed that word on to you . He then replies "Don't play stupid with me it jus makes me more ***** that you lied to me and I bought the car from you not him if I had know this I would have never traded or wanted $500 extra now on xxxx day I have to put a new engine in it you can't do this with out expecting payback. I don't reply at his I felt I had fully disclosed what I knew and he found otherwise.

The truck I got in trade has some bad rust problems as well I will probably have to put a new bed rocker cab corners doors and the tires rub on the front the head gasket leaks oil the oil pan seemed to be a jack point and is crushed it has a hole in the radiator so it only can be filled 1/2 cap or else it leaks and was filled with mostly water it reas 2 quarts low on oil.Both cars came with rust engine problems it now seems (the trucks engine is now starting to smoke a bit out of the drivers side bank) Mine has tire problems and the elco had some better interior in my opinion. And the truck I got has saddle tanks and only the drivers side will work.

What do you think? How would you handle it. Every one I talk this overwith tells me not to sweat it because I was lied to by the guy who told me it had a fresh 307 not a worn out junker and I wronged no one and I just told the fellow what I knew .

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Old 12-11-2008, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chlsnk
Well I traded my el camino localy for a 80's chevy truck. My ad I put in the paper read.


"I have a good project that is well on its way to be finnished. The car was built in the MO Fairfax plant in january 72' . It has working power steering tilter steering colum with SS steering wheel. posi traction rear end Freshly rebuilt 307 four bolt main with carter 650 carb on eldelbrock high rise intake. Very very clean interior. New Firestone tires on rally wheels. Has extra fenders extra doors extra hood and for a extra $50 I will throw in a late model 350 block with one piece main seal and all the mains. This car can burn rubber has full tank of gas! Has 60,000 origonal miles and this hasn't been rolled over . Clean and clear title too!

307 four bolt main???








Well.......... since you ask.I would tell the guy no problem we will trade back.Apparently I was lied to by the previous owner but I don,t want to pass my problems on to you.

Last edited by Centerline; 12-11-2008 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Other.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:16 AM
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Once again this is what I have been told by the guy I bought it from about the 307 . I never touched the engine the most I did was advance the timing by turning the distributer.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chlsnk
Once again this is what I have been told by the guy I bought it from about the 307 . I never touched the engine the most I did was advance the timing by turning the distributer.
Doesn't matter. The "RIGHT" thing to do is trade back.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:28 AM
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You trying to tell us this "mechanic" made the trade and never started the motor? Even your average highschool shop mechanic would know a motor that is fogging mosquitoes is not probably a fresh rebuild. Should trade it back, but don't let him keep it by sweetening the deal. Sounds like a mild con to me.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:25 PM
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Over time

In answer to your bad deal.I have never had anyone around here tell me the truth about anything and I have lost thousands of dollars on cars ,land and engines ,trannies ,rear ends ,old parts used parts and whole cars,Man I live in a place where even giving the guy all my stuff in my garage and four vehichles,he still stole off me.I gave him over 48 grand worth of carsand hot rod parts and he stole off me.Hey, Trade the other guy back and do your thing cause in my opinion the whole bunch is out for themslves,aaaaaaand threats can and should be handled by the courts.Man I got so many stories about bad deals it gets my old lady crazy if I even think out loud about trading anything ,But you know if it walks like a duck ,talks like a duck,I think its a duck.Took me a long time to learn that.Trust is something that was for our forefathers I think
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:18 PM
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This is the exact reason I will never trade anyone for anything.

I agree with the others, trade him back, get it off of your back. He will then realize that you were not out to get him. In his mind, he is probably thinking that he got took. Giving him a call and stating that you would like to trade back, explain to him that you did disclose what you knew. He may start thinking that he acted a little too quick with threats of payback, and that you are not a bad guy after all.

Jason
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:19 PM
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The oil from a blown engine will burn out of the exhaust in a very short time once the system gets hot once. The engine is no good. Your best be it to make good and cancel the deal.

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Old 12-11-2008, 05:33 PM
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The right thing to do is to offer to trade back, then you are off the hook.

FWIW there were no 4 bolt main 307's, and the 307 is far from the dog most people think it was.

Vince
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chlsnk
[...] My ad I put in the paper read.

"I have a good project that is well on its way to be finnished. The car was built in the MO Fairfax plant in january 72' . It has working power steering tilter steering colum with SS steering wheel. posi traction rear end Freshly rebuilt 307 four bolt main with carter 650 carb on eldelbrock high rise intake. Very very clean interior. New Firestone tires on rally wheels. Has extra fenders extra doors extra hood and for a extra $50 I will throw in a late model 350 block with one piece main seal and all the mains. This car can burn rubber has full tank of gas! Has 60,000 origonal miles and this hasn't been rolled over . Clean and clear title too! "
If that's what you put in your advertisement, that's what you obligated yourself to provide. The smoke shows that it is not "[f]reshly rebuilt". You didn't say that you were only told that it was rebuilt. You didn't indicate to potential buyers that you weren't certain of some information in the ad. Even the statement about the mileage is suspect -- unless you've been the only owner of the vehicle.

You didn't provide what you promised in your ad. This is not a situation where an informed buyer made a bad deal; this is a situation of a seller completely misleading potential buyers with false information. You can't shift the responsibility to whoever you bought the car from. You stated flatly that it was "[f]reshly rebuilt".

Make it right. You have an obligation that you created for yourself. Either provide what you promised in your ad or un-do the deal completely.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
If that's what you put in your advertisement, that's what you obligated yourself to provide. The smoke shows that it is not "[f]reshly rebuilt". You didn't say that you were only told that it was rebuilt. You didn't indicate to potential buyers that you weren't certain of some information in the ad. Even the statement about the mileage is suspect -- unless you've been the only owner of the vehicle.

You didn't provide what you promised in your ad. This is not a situation where an informed buyer made a bad deal; this is a situation of a seller completely misleading potential buyers with false information. You can't shift the responsibility to whoever you bought the car from. You stated flatly that it was "[f]reshly rebuilt".

Make it right. You have an obligation that you created for yourself. Either provide what you promised in your ad or un-do the deal completely.
Yes yes I don't think I am going to trade back for the sheer fact I spent more time clearing the ratty wiring and welding in patches in the first week of having it , cleaning the black interior throughly and paint on the tail gate to get it to match. I have enough parts to build a REAL four bolt main 010 350 (it is another bare block and yes it does have fourbolt mains I checked)minus heads and top end (intake/carb) The engine has been in the machince shop boiled over bored by .30 and now needs a slight hone to clean some dust and specks of minor surface rust. The fellow seemed to be most concerned with the engine and if he is truely a mechanic he could easily build this.And see if it is enough to even us out because I am scared to trade back for the sheer fact he threw the proviberal wrench in the gears literly.

Unfortunely this guy seemed like some one I would actualy run with and seemed like a pretty decent guy.
He is a mobile mechanic if that makes a difference.
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Old 12-16-2008, 10:35 PM
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I am dissenting from the majority here. If you disclosed the source (hence reliability) of the information then he is just as responsible as anyone. Anyone with a brain knows smoke is a bad thing. If someone gave me that story, my money would not leave my wallet until the oil burned off and I was satisfied it was good.

If the guy came back friendly to me, I would probably trade back. But I do not see any moral obligation to do so. If the guy was as rude as you make him sound, I would probably tell him tough *******.

Quote:
Some back ground on the car I disclosed to the person wanting to trade. I drove it home and it smoked some but the guy I bought it from said it was from the late model 350 that blew and sent all the oil down the tail pipe but not to worry about it and the more I drove it it would just burn and blow the oil out and since it had a "freshly" rebuilt engine there should be no problem he said he bought it off craigslist he said.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshF
[...]
But I do not see any moral obligation to do so.
[...]
My earlier response in this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with "moral obligation"; it has to do with possible fraud.

If the advertisement, as quoted in the opening comment by the seller, did actually state, "Freshly rebuilt 307 four bolt main with carter 650 carb on eldelbrock high rise intake", then that is what the seller has obligated himself to provide. I don't see any statement of "as-is" in the quoted ad, nor any disclaimer about relying on the previous owner's statement about the engine without first-hand knowledge by the seller.

Discarding terms of a contract just because it benefits you can get you into trouble with other parties to the contract. (A contract involves a mutual exchange of obligations agreed upon by the parties).
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:31 PM
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Should have never traded in the first place. That El'C is worth more than an 80's Chevy truck. On the other hand, he should have checked it out better. "Let the buyer beware" is the way it is. The El'C is 35+ years old. But if he wants to get nasty about it, do the right thing and swap him back. You are only out your time. You shouldn't have a hard time selling it for $1500 and finding another truck if that is what you want. Especially with extra parts. A coworker went out West and bought a SS ElCamino for $10,000.00 and was basically raped on it. Once he picked it up, got it home and really started checking it over, it wasn't a true SS, but that's another story.
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:25 PM
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your take on a car trade dispute

Ever heard the term "as is?" Should apply to BOTH parties.
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