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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2011, 06:37 AM
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I found it! The pinion support has been moving. I pulled the pinion out and noticed a contact spot on the outer heel/face of the tooth on the ring gear. The support is aluminum so I have been installing it with washers under the bolts. I think the washers are too big and not laying flat. The outer edge of the washer is laying on a radius part of the support. I put 40 foot pounds on the bolts.

I was just thinking that maybe I should use the biigger bolt holes on my housing since it has them already there. I am paranoid about using the aluminum support now and thinking about getting an iron one. What do you think about the gear? Is it ruined or should I run it? If I set it back up like I had it then it shouldnt even get contact out where these spots are.











I put the pinion in a factory Ford support but it wont work with my yoke since it is for the Daytona style support.

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2011, 07:23 AM
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I am also ordering ARP pinion support studs.
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:13 PM
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You can get a special spacer to run a Daytona yoke on a regular support. Randys has them for about $5

Were you using high strength Grade 8 washers?

Last edited by lmsport; 03-28-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmsport
You can get a special spacer to run a Daytona yoke on a regular support. Randys has them for about $5

Were you using high strength Grade 8 washers?

Yes, using grade 8 washers. The more I think about it, I am really not sure what it is going on. I took another look at the support last night and the washers were lying pretty flat. Something is off, or misaligned somewhere in the pinion support or the case. My new Strange nodular iron pinion support, ARP studs, and bearings will be here today. I took a look at the OEM Ford gear that I pulled from the junk yard and ran in my housing; it has the same marks on it that the Yukon has but are a lot smaller and not as noticeable. I may try it again. I am paranoid about buying a new ring and pinion and having it gawled up.

So I have had 3 gears all in this same case and support that all show the same contact areas out on the end of the teeth. Even when I set the paatern on the drive side down towards the toe they are getting heavy contact on the heel/face under a load.

Quick Performance is about to get some bashing from me. I bought all this crap from them and they are not being very helpful. They are telling me they have sold hundreds of these case's and supports without any problems. I sent them pictures of the patterns and they questioned my gear marking compound and told me to use enamel paint. Itís pretty well common sense to see that the last pattern I had on the Yukon gear was nowhere near the marks that are now on the ring gear.

Last edited by 96lt4c4; 03-29-2011 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:14 PM
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Check this out, click the top picture, its a video.



Out with the old in with the new



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Old 03-29-2011, 05:24 PM
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You might double check and make sure the ring gear or carrier is NOT hitting anywhere on the inside of the case. Look on the side of the pocket brg and make sure the inside of the ring gear is not scraping it.

I've also had to clearance the Aluminum case because the Hat side of the carrier was scraping.

Just something to double check.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
You might double check and make sure the ring gear or carrier is NOT hitting anywhere on the inside of the case. Look on the side of the pocket brg and make sure the inside of the ring gear is not scraping it.

I've also had to clearance the Aluminum case because the Hat side of the carrier was scraping.

Just something to double check.
OK, I had to grind the case around the hat area you are talking about already. The pocket bearing boss area is so big on the case that it was hitting the posi. I have plenty of clearence now. I got it together tonight, seemed like it took a while to get the shim pack right for the pinoin bearings. Pinoin bearing preload is just a shade under 15 inch pounds. When I first put it together it was 25 inch pounds but just felt way to tight. The Ford manual says 12.5 to 31.5 inch pounds. What do you think, these are brand new bearings. I ran a quick pattern with .021 pinion shim (just guessed) and lash at .006 and it looks real close to what I had last time. If this doesnt fix it then the case is bad.

What do you guys think about the way that race looked, shouldnt the wear pattern be uniform all the way around?
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96lt4c4
OK, I had to grind the case around the hat area you are talking about already. The pocket bearing boss area is so big on the case that it was hitting the posi. I have plenty of clearence now. I got it together tonight, seemed like it took a while to get the shim pack right for the pinoin bearings. Pinoin bearing preload is just a shade under 15 inch pounds. When I first put it together it was 25 inch pounds but just felt way to tight. The Ford manual says 12.5 to 31.5 inch pounds. What do you think, these are brand new bearings. I ran a quick pattern with .021 pinion shim (just guessed) and lash at .006 and it looks real close to what I had last time. If this doesnt fix it then the case is bad.

What do you guys think about the way that race looked, shouldnt the wear pattern be uniform all the way around?
I really couldn`t see anything from that video but we had allso nonuniform wear pattern in both carrier bearings and pinion bearings,one suggestion was that there were not enough preload or our 9+ case is bad.
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoFinn
I really couldn`t see anything from that video but we had allso nonuniform wear pattern in both carrier bearings and pinion bearings,one suggestion was that there were not enough preload or our 9+ case is bad.

My carrier bearings look good as far as the wear pattern on them, its just the pinion bearings. How tight are you guys setting pinion bearing preload.
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:42 AM
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good post here, im just observing.

thanks
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Old 03-30-2011, 08:45 AM
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If I was going to use an aluminum support on the street, I would use less preload because of the thermal expansion difference, on new bearings around 10-15inlbs.

I have seen the unusual contact pattern on almost new races located over oil channel recesses in the race bore in certain applications, like the 8.25 and 9.25 Chrysler. I dont think it causes a problem. To me it does indicate that the race is not loaded uniformly due to the housing strength, which does not seem to be true in your application. Maybe the bore is out of round? but that seems unlikely.

Maybe you need to run your chunk in someone else's car? Or, borrow a chunk know to be quiet. Maybe the al case and your combination of suspension links is just prone to noise transfer.
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmsport
If I was going to use an aluminum support on the street, I would use less preload because of the thermal expansion difference, on new bearings around 10-15inlbs.

I have seen the unusual contact pattern on almost new races located over oil channel recesses in the race bore in certain applications, like the 8.25 and 9.25 Chrysler. I dont think it causes a problem. To me it does indicate that the race is not loaded uniformly due to the housing strength, which does not seem to be true in your application. Maybe the bore is out of round? but that seems unlikely.

Maybe you need to run your chunk in someone else's car? Or, borrow a chunk know to be quiet. Maybe the al case and your combination of suspension links is just prone to noise transfer.

I can understand that but for the teeth on the ring gear to galled up like they are, and where they are, indicates that something is moving or flexing under a load. Or that something is machined wrong, just enough that it doesnít show up when I check my pattern on the bench. But as soon as it is loaded the teeth galled up. The noise I am hearing is just not right, it changes with throttle and gets louder. It is not something that you can just live with. If I were to just drive the car this way it would obviously eat up the ring gear.

I will figure it out, but I have a feeling it will be the hard way, and end up costing me more money.
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96lt4c4
My carrier bearings look good as far as the wear pattern on them, its just the pinion bearings. How tight are you guys setting pinion bearing preload.
I use 18 to 20 inch pounds. You dont need to run anything loose or tight because of your aluminum stuff. Set your Backlash, Pinion Preload as usual.
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prostreet6t9
I use 18 to 20 inch pounds. You dont need to run anything loose or tight because of your aluminum stuff. Set your Backlash, Pinion Preload as usual.

Ok thanks, keep in mind now I will be running the N Iron pinion support. I will take it back apart and set the preload a little tighter.
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96lt4c4
The noise I am hearing is just not right, it changes with throttle and gets louder.
Interesting way you worded this... If it changes with THROTTLE and not just RPMs, something is MOVING. Think about this on the next trial and see if it can apply to the aluminum being a weak link allowing a shift under load.
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