zero decking block - Page 3 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2010, 06:38 AM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duntov
Hotrodding and nascar are two different worlds. One is a business the other is fun.
Were is the post about NASCAR I guess I missed that one???

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2010, 03:51 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: east of the rockies
Posts: 17
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duntov
Hotrodding and nascar are two different worlds. One is a business the other is fun.
They are both a business for machine shops, and if the hotrodder has his machine work done wrong, I bet its not fun, is it????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:31 AM
Duntov's Avatar
Visit the NASCAR Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Near Charlotte
Posts: 411
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
C3 probably already knows that the Big dogs don't go "Yap Yap Yap".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1975yellowC3
Couple of questions about decking a block.

I am going to be zero decking my block...I think. Here are my questions:

Do I need to mock up the engine before getting it decked to do an actual measurement before telling the machine shop how much to remove or is it "close enough" to do a stack up of the parts advertised dimensions and go with that? For instance, stack adds up to 9.001.....just tell them to take it to 9.001.

Can I tell the machine shop to just take the deck to 9 inches or do I have to tell them how much material to remove? (I think deck height is measured from the center of the crank and wasn't sure how they get that measurement if hand them a bare block?)

What is a ball park figure for the cost of decking the block?

I am sure these are easy questions as this is the first time having any machine work done to a block.

Levi
I hope the OP>> 1975YellowC3 is not very confused by the attack on TechInspecter. I'm sure he will check out his local machine shops and gauge deck first is he sees a portable boring bar..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2010, 07:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: east of the rockies
Posts: 17
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There is nothing wrong with using a portable boring bar, but the main line needs to be corrected first, then the deck, now you can mount your bar to the deck and bore. if you just bore off the deck your bores will not be 45* as i have never seen a production small block with perfect decks, front to rear and intake to exhaust.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2010, 04:12 PM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duntov
I hope the OP>> 1975YellowC3 is not very confused by the attack on TechInspecter. I'm sure he will check out his local machine shops and gauge deck first is he sees a portable boring bar..

Guy this 2010 you don't bore a block first and fit a rotator they may have sone that 30 years ago but no with todays technolgy

The OP should find a real shop as it will save alot of time and money in the long run as posted by some other smarter guys here who have been around engines and done machine work and don't spew out info that will cause more work for a guy.

Fitting up rotators to deck a block come on give me a brake
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomfield, IN
Age: 36
Posts: 69
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am still following along. I am thinking about just going and buying a crate motor now!!! j/k.

I didn't think such a simple question (or so I thought was simple) would stir up such controversy!

Thanks for all the posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 01:25 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1975yellowC3
I am pretty sure I am going to use the pistons you had suggested to me for my motor. I am hoping to not have to bore the motor, but I don't have it back out of he car yet so haven't done any measuring.
If I understand this correctly, you want to deck the block- but not bore it?

Instead of reusing pistons or buying standard pistons or pistons to fit an old bore, I would suggest you just rebuild the engine properly from the start. You'll be money ahead, when a few thousand miles down the road the engine starts to blow by and you are (again) looking at a rebore.

Or, if the bores really are pristine, just give the (if standard, or close to it) decks a skim, same for the heads (if needed) and run shim gaskets. That gives you a good quench and a good surface for the shim to seal on.

JMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 06:56 AM
Duntov's Avatar
Visit the NASCAR Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Near Charlotte
Posts: 411
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
C3 will do ok either way

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS NE
Guy this 2010 you don't bore a block first and fit a rotator they may have sone that 30 years ago but no with todays technolgy

The OP should find a real shop as it will save alot of time and money in the long run as posted by some other smarter guys here who have been around engines and done machine work and don't spew out info that will cause more work for a guy.

Fitting up rotators to deck a block come on give me a brake
No one has to defend his equipment and consequently his technique to me. The old Vn, Berco, Kwik Way, what ever portable bars certainly need to sitting on a flat deck. I assume TI uses a shop with upscale equipment that allows the 4 corner method.

Our machinist has a Rottler F8A, which as you know, references the mains and not the deck, so we could use either technique we want, but we generally gauge deck in relation to main bore to a predetermined stack height, because our stack height is blueprinted.

I didn't understand the attack. Gave me the impression that you assume every shop in the country still uses portable bars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 12:56 PM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duntov
No one has to defend his equipment and consequently his technique to me. The old Vn, Berco, Kwik Way, what ever portable bars certainly need to sitting on a flat deck. I assume TI uses a shop with upscale equipment that allows the 4 corner method.

Our machinist has a Rottler F8A, which as you know, references the mains and not the deck, so we could use either technique we want, but we generally gauge deck in relation to main bore to a predetermined stack height, because our stack height is blueprinted.

I didn't understand the attack. Gave me the impression that you assume every shop in the country still uses portable bars.
I know a lot of shops I deal with accross the country that are still using boring bars off the decks, We still have two 777 and a 888 and a 999 boring bar we have not used them in years. And I know some shops using CNC machines which is state of the art equipment as far as accuracy and speed they are hard to beat.

Personaly I have never seen any one who had to fit up a rotator to have it the block decked maybe 30 or more years maybe but not with the equipment out there today.

Who the hell wants to drag a block back and forth to the machine and what machine shop is going to take the time to fit up a rotator and measure 4 corners of the block. Seems like a waste of time to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 01:37 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS NE
Who the hell wants to drag a block back and forth to the machine and what machine shop is going to take the time to fit up a rotator and measure 4 corners of the block. Seems like a waste of time to me.
A time killer, for sure. And a PITA, for sure.

I don't think anyone prefers to do it that way- but it works for the "little guy" on a tight budget who may only do one or two engines a year. I have a decent tool collection, but I don't have anything that'll accurately measure the block height or stack height- unless I at least partially assemble the rotator or measure it before stripping down the engine, that is.

But for Joe Schmoe from Kokomo, the options are:
  • Pay the piper (i.e. have the machinist do it all, at the shop rate)
  • Take their best guess at the stack height from published figures subtracted from their best guess at the block's height
  • Or measuring the corners
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 01:49 PM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
A time killer, for sure. And a PITA, for sure.

I don't think anyone prefers to do it that way- but it works for the "little guy" on a tight budget who may only do one or two engines a year. I have a decent tool collection, but I don't have anything that'll accurately measure the block height or stack height- unless I at least partially assemble the rotator or measure it before stripping down the engine, that is.

But for Joe Schmoe from Kokomo, the options are:
  • Pay the piper (i.e. have the machinist do it all, at the shop rate)
  • Take their best guess at the stack height from published figures subtracted from their best guess at the block's height
  • Or measuring the corners
Most guys that don't have the correct equipment to the job right cant true the decks up so they are true 45 degrees to the cam and cranks center lines.

Which is kind of a wate of time to even cut the decks if you can't do them right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:00 PM
engineczar's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Flowbench nirvana
Age: 52
Posts: 1,653
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 48 Times in 44 Posts
Interesting topic.

I'm in the straighten out the mains first, Square the decks, then bore/hone with plates camp.

I find that intentionally cutting the decks at an angle or to different heights to match a rotating assy just makes for fitment problems down the road. Also the quality of the hone when using plates on freshly cut decks has a benefit if you're concerned about ring seal.

Just my 2 cents.
__________________
BSE Racing Engines
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:30 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS NE
Most guys that don't have the correct equipment to the job right cant true the decks up so they are true 45 degrees to the cam and cranks center lines.

Which is kind of a wate of time to even cut the decks if you can't do them right.
I think something continues to be lost in the translation.

I don't cut anything. What I AM doing is simply measuring the block to give my machinist the figures I want cut from the deck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:45 PM
CNC BLOCKS NE's Avatar
CNC Blocks Northeast
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NORTHEAST
Age: 54
Posts: 1,441
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I think something continues to be lost in the translation.

I don't cut anything. What I AM doing is simply measuring the block to give my machinist the figures I want cut from the deck.
So your not addressing the main line first if not that sounds scary, Does you machinest have a sqaring fixture he using or is he using the fudge factor!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2010, 03:15 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS NE
So your not addressing the main line first if not that sounds scary, Does you machinest have a sqaring fixture he using or is he using the fudge factor!!!
The engines that I build and have built in the past are not to the point that there's zero tolerance for error. Quench is targeted at 0.045", worst case scenario is that it's a little tighter than that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Small Block to Big block pullies WakBordr7387 Hotrodding Basics 5 01-30-2007 12:35 AM
Decking a Block... Blazin72 Engine 7 12-29-2006 09:18 PM
Engine ID crash Engine 10 10-01-2006 06:43 PM
Small Block ID Help bluesman123 Engine 4 05-23-2006 09:07 PM
Decoding Ford Small block hotrodgs Engine 16 05-14-2006 05:15 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.