So I currently just bought a car with a zz4 350 and a 7004r transmission and I will be putting this setup in a different car. Before I drop it in to my car I would like to maybe lightly modify it. A bigger cam roller rockers maybe a lighter flywheel? it appears to me to be all stock except for the fact that I found a emissions friendly comp cam sticker in the engine bay leading me to believe that the original cam was switched it also has the orginal aluminum heads with a edelbrock air gap intake manifold and a holley 670 cfm carb (I think that's what the numbers decode on it). It also has a msd distributor and 6AL box. As for the tranny I was thinking of just throwing a shift kit in it and calling it a day. Any help or advice would be great
Pull the timing cover and cam gear and the numbers will be right there to tell you what cam it already has then figure your variables of gears and weight of vehicle plus estimated compression ratio to make an educated cam choice.
ok thank you i will do that once i get the motor out and on a stand once i determine my cam i can then choose my rocker arms and springs so they match. what do you think of a lighter flywheel though i havnt heard much about them are the worth it or not? Also are there any mods i should do to the carb i am going to be rebuilding it. i have rebuily qjets before but never a holley.
An automatic transmission uses a flexplate, which the torque converter bolts to. I would urge you to use a flexplate that is SFI rated. It will be thicker material and will not crack as easily as some of the currently available flexplates.
If he kept the stock cam; something like the ZZ4 hotcam. If you have the stock heads (113 casting number; aluminum GM D-ports); a 3-angle valvejob and a set of LT1 valves (2.000 intake and 1.55 exhaust??) will really wake them up. ZZ4's use a .05x" head gasket, with 58cc nominal chambers; adding the valvejob and larger valves may add to the chamber volume. I do not know if you can lower the headgasket thickness without causing trouble or not. Just a note that if you pull the heads; its an odd gasket.
Thank you for the correction I looked into the SFI rated flexplates and there relatively cheep so I cant see it being a bad investment but is there any actually horsepower gain from that I mean besides the durability is it worth going through with changing it?
and to answer nate
I did some looking under the hood tonight when I got home and got a whole bunch of numbers the heads have the 113 casting number I also found the cam number (I think) off the sticker inside the engine bay it say D-225-19 I looked around on google for those number and came up with this Crane Cams 114102, | Crane Cams. Im new to all this stuff so if anyone could tell me if this is a good cam for this motor or is it worth changing to get more power.
I also got the block number 1M0820 3 ZZ4 as well as the msd distributor P/N 84022
^^ I was just reading the description on that cam it looks like it'll be changed lol it says its a emissions friendly cam for a 4.4 or 5.0 the car also has two cats on it so im guessing for emissions he put that cam in
hopefully the sticker is incorrect or was put on there for the factory motor that was a 305 sbc
I wont be able to know for sure until I do what JAKE40 told me to do in order to get the cam numbers that are on the cam
In my experience, aftermarket cams are stamped with the information on the rear bearing face, not the front. Pull the pushrods, pull the lifters, pull the cam. Be careful pulling the cam out. The lobes are very sharp on their edges and will scrape or nick the cam bushings on the way out. Some fellows use a tool to remove or install the cam to that they have more leverage to prevent damage to the bushings. Here's a commercially-available example that you could make at home if you're handy and have some scrap metal laying around.....Or....have a buddy help you to guide the cam out. If the cam was stamped on the front face, the number stamps would displace material where the cam sprocket bolts onto the cam, so that the raised material above the machined surface of the cam might make the sprocket spin lolly-gagged. (highly technical term:thumbup. JEGS Performance Products 80599, JEGS Camshaft Installation / Removal Tool | JEGS Performance Products
no horse power gain from an SFI flex plate. when the engine is out,consider a gasket set and taking it apart for measurements if you plan a few mods.also easier to identify what you have on a stand,,,
If it has a mechanical fuel pump you have to remove it also if you have to pull the cam all the way out. The last two cams I've done the numbers were etched in the front right behind the cam gear but they could be on the other end.
vinniekq12 - So pretty much there's no need to change the flexplate since the one on the motor is good, why a gasket set and by measurements you mean the thickness of the gaskets im guessing?
techinspector1 - as far as cam tools I talked to one of my friends at work who has done a cam swap, he has a cam removal/install tool that hes going to let me borrow when I get the engine on the stand thank you for the link though
jake40 - how do you know if its a mechanical fuel pump, the one on the motor is a factory style I don't think its electric because it looks just like the one I have on the motor in the car im planning to swap the zz4 motor in which is a 88 monte carlo ss correct me if im wrong because im really not to sure.
F-BIRD`88 - I was hoping someone would say that because I cant see someone putting as stock 305 cam in a zz4 motor its just hypercritical to tone down a crate motor in my own opinion. I noticed today that the guy I bought the car never registered it in his name the title he gave me has the name and address of the "original owner" so I will be writing him a letter to see if hes willing to talk to me about it and let me in on what he did with the car when it was in his possession. If it works out in my favor hopefully hell even have some documentation on the engine that hes willing to give me.
Thank you everyone for all the advise I truly appreciate it and I must say this is the most welcoming and helpful forum I have ever joined.
v
jake40 - how do you know if its a mechanical fuel pump, the one on the motor is a factory style I don't think its electric because it looks just like the one I have on the motor in the car im planning to swap the zz4 motor in which is a 88 monte carlo ss correct me if im wrong because im really not to sure.
If it bolts to the block it's a mechanical pump and will need to be removed or the cam will not slide out of the block. A mechanical pump has a pump rod that rides on the very first lobe of the cam.
the ratty looking monte in primer is the car with the zz4 motor
and the gloss black monte with the prostars is the one im putting the zz4 into I just finished doing a frame off on it and now that im happy with everything else its finally time to put some power under the hood :thumbup:
gasket set so you can regasket the engine.and paint,and measure deck height of pistons, and check for balance while apart,,,,etc seeing the pistons will help with compression ratio you actually have to properly choose a camshaft
vinniekq2 - ok I understand that makes more sense now also iv been talking to more people and learning more about this whole process as far as cam choice I just got off the phone with comp cams and the recommended COMP Cams: Xtreme Energy™ XR276HR; Full Cam Kit the rep I talked to informed me that if I get him more info such as what stall convertor I have and the exact compression ratio he can offer a bigger cam to match exactly what I have. I wanted to show you guys on the forum what he recommended and see what everyone thought. This kit looks good from what I know but I could be wrong. He offered this because everything would then match for a fact I would just have to choose rocker arms I was just going to see what comp cam offers that would work well with that kit. I also seen somewhere that people put a LT1 hotcam kit in the motor which I found here Chevrolet Performance 12480002K, Chevrolet Performance LT1/LT4 Hot Cam Kit | Chevrolet Performance=
. The tiny Crane cam (184/194) you linked to looks like a stock replacement cam for a base level 283" engine or 307"/327"/350" truck engine and it's a hydraulic flat tappet cam made for about 125-175 HP... hope nobody put that in your ZZ4 unless they were building a rock climbing engine for speeds up to 5 MPH...
. The ZZ4 engine is 355 HP stock and comes stock with a (208/221) ROLLER Hydraulic cam with good valve lifts perfect for that much HP and a fat torque curve... the -113 heads are an aluminum version of stock iron heads good to about only 385 HP max so don't want to go much bigger on cam... bigger valves and pocket porting don't help them much... extensively porting the intake ports, reshaping the combustion chambers to cut down on valve shrouding, and hogging the hell out of the small exhaust ports is the only thing that helps them much...
. The roller cam Comp suggested looks like a really old design with too much duration (224/230) for the -113 heads and not much valve lift... I'd much more suggest the GM Hot Cam (218/228) with less duration and all the valve/lifter lift the stock GM roller lifter setup can handle (.525"/.525") (or the similar sized cam Lunati makes)... and it'll give all the HP the stock heads can flow with a better torque curve than that Comp cam... and more power if the heads are ported/bigger valved later... re-use the stock roller lifters if in good shape and all the rest of the valvetrain...
. As the guys mentioned above, headers and true dual exhaust will be needed for the engine to reach full potential power... stock Q-Jet or 750 Holley carb...
. Find a .015" thick coated head gasket recommended for aluminum heads to improve 'engine quench effect' and get the compression ratio up enough to match more cam...
. Flat tappet cams and roller cams usually use different fuel pump pushrods, but I don't recall just which one the ZZ4 roller cam calls for... depends on camshaft material iron vs steel and design tricks, if any... also, the valve lifter pushrods are different lengths...
.
vinniekq2 - ok thank you again for everything and that's the plan once its on the engine stand ill really be able to figure out exactly which direction to go with as of now the motor is still in the car until I get a chance to pull it out.
BuzzLOL - thank you very much for all the information in regards to the cam I couldn't see someone putting that tiny cam in the motor considering you can hear very little through the exhaust the cam. In regards to swapping the cam to a new one the GM hot cam sounds more of what im looking for based off the information you are supplying. I was really looking to make about 400hp but 385hp is close enough considering im upgrading from the factory 305 that only has aluminum heads, mild cam, and rocker arms. I don't know the exact numbers of the 305 because that is how I got it when I bought the car. I have hooker super comp full length headers as wheel as a pypes x-pipe dual exhaust with no cats that will be with the zz4 (currently with my 305). As far as carburetor right now there is a Holley 670 with a edelbrock rpm airgap intake manifold on the zz4 at the moment, I just rebuilt the 670 today. On my 305 I have the stock qjet that has the DR secondary metering rods as well as the cliffs high performance accelerator pump and other mods. The qjet I just rebuilt in june this year and runs great, would that be better for my zz4 compared to the 670 that is on it? Or would you recommend just getting a Holley 750, I like everything about the Qjet but don't know nearly as much about the Holleys. Before I pull the zz4 out of the car it is currently in I would like to get it running as good as possible and then just put in the LT1 hot cam kit once I put it on the stand, but other mods are always a option. Along with building the motor would you recommend anything for the tranny? I intend on keeping my 200r4 that I have behind my 305 at the moment, it has a shift kit and that's all I know about it besides that the transmission itself only has 75,000 original miles on it. Im not planning on running slicks with the car so it wont hook I just want to make sure I do it right and do it once.
in that post there claiming that on a zz4 fastburn 350/385hp that when you add a lt1 hotcam and 1.6:1 rockers they make 430 hp (45 hp gain) if I do this In my zz4 350/355 hp would I then be at 400 hp? I could be completely wrong so please correct me if I am. I figured it was worth a shot asking though
I'd have to say no to 430 the FB385 head isn't that good out of the box, it takes some messing with to get numbers above 410-415 with the LT4 HOT cam and 1.6 rockers.
The 350 FB385 engine starts getting quirky when seeking power over the 385 number GM sites for the FB385. Not that it's complicated get higher power numbers but the space to be off a little goes away.
. Your 305 has aluminum heads? They didn't come stock that way... are they better flowing heads than the -113's?
. Yes, the hot cam and bumping the compression ratio should push the -113 heads close to 400 HP...
. You need to decide which system to use: computer, CCC carb., and CCC distributor - or - NO computer stuff at all... can't mix systems...
. Actually, I forgot the 218/228 Hot Cam needs 1.6 rockers to reach .525" valve lift... with stock 1.5 rockers the lift is .492"... so, the close, but even more modern Lunati #60111 version 219/227 duration .515"/.530 lifts (at 1.5 rockers) would be better as long as going new cam:
some really good advice being giving to the OP:thumbup:. I like Vinnie's idea, GET IT APART, and see what you have. you might need less then you think, then again you might need more. but it sounds like you are on the right track. good luck, and keep asking questions before throwing parts and money at it:nono:. rick
BuzzLOL - yes my 305 has aluminum heads i dont know what heads they are i would have to pull the valve covers off, but i like the 305 just the way it is as a back up motor. As far as the computer i intend on ripping that all out i never liked the idea of computers to bw honest.
jax-pap i agree with you and Vinnie 100% on getting it apart first but like i said im new to all this motor stuff im learning as much as possible before i pull it all apart
I didnt want to jump into the motor knowing nothing.
So in regards to the cam and other mods heres what iv come up with so far I called lunati last night and they suggested their Voodoo Hydraulic Roller cam and lifter kit lt1/lt4 part number 20080721LK 219/227 duration at .050 as well as a beehive valve spring kit part number 74818K5 with Voodoo Alum. Self Aligning Rockers (1.5 Ratio, 3/8" Stud) - Chevrolet V8 305 - 350 (Set Of 16) part number 15340-16 he suggested pushrods and link bar lifters as well but said they weren't a must. In regards to all this information he supplied to me does anyone think that I should keep everything matching with the cam or are there other companies with the same specs as these parts but that are better? Once the motor is pulled I plan on ordering everything this way once I get the motor on the stand I have everything in front of me. In regards to the carburetor I intend on calling Holley and finding out exactly what they recommend for my set up, because iv been talking to a few different people about this and some say a 750 cfm would work but better for top end performance the 670 cfm would give me a better throttle response. The guy from lunati also said I should upgrade my tourqe convertor to a 2000-2200 stall convertor to get the max performance out of the cam. Whats a good brand tourqe convertor I know theres monster transmission, tci, ck performance. But which one is the best bang for your buck. Any advice is great :thumbup:
I had the gm zz4 roller cam in my engine once and I decided to change it and got that exact lunati voodoo hydraulic roller cam 60111 219/227 @ 50 515/530 lift in my 880 87 and up oem roller block with the oem roller lifters and they work fine but I would not go anything higher lift wise on the oem lifters. I have it matched with a set of Dart Shp 180 aluminum heads and a weiand high rise dual plane intake with a 680cfm quick fuel vacuum secondary carb and it runs plenty strong up to 6000 rpm and running it in a 96 s10 with a turbo 350 and 2000/2200 stall and 3.42 rear gears. I get about 18 inches of vacuum in park and it has a nice lope at idle and excellent street manners and picks up plenty strong once you hit 2000 and up.
BuzzLOL & ericnova72 - as far as I know its the factory convertor now that I know factory its a 2000 stall hopefully it wasn't changed I know there's definitely a shiftkit in it, is there anyway to figure out exactly what stall convertor you have? Are there number on it or something along those lines?
eric32 - thank you that's exactly what I was hoping to hear sounds like ill have a good set up
You could start another thread and ask that, one of the trans guys here may know....there is a stamped ID code on them, but I have no idea what #'s it should have.
I believe it is stamped either somewhere near the weld around it, or somewhere near the pump drive neck or on the face of that half of the converter....it's not on the flywheel side.
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