[tech69]

Never used a HF stud gun but I can't stress enough a tip taught to me by a serious tool inventor that using the stud gun you don't need much heat. I understand may be describing this exact thing, the HF doesn't even have enough to do this. I am posting this for any lurkers who haven't seen it.

This video shows how little a tap on the trigger you should need.



Brian

I agree, and that's what I love about my bumble bee stud gun. At work we have a pretty good one but we lost the tip. Someone hasn't ordered a new one and for the last two months we have been using the cheap HF we have, and I'm not gonna bring in my good stud gun, no way! That's a shop duty just as it is to get sand paper-lol I totally agree with feathering and trying t go light as possible cause if you get some shrink where the stud is that's fine being you're pulling it and not hammering the trigger but it's the outer ring's resistance that well get you. not an issue with the good guns when using it right but with the harbor freight it's a nightmare no matter how you use it.

 

[MARTINSR]

HF is the LAST resort as far as I am concerned.

Brian

 

[Old Fool]

MIG welding is usually globular transfer. ( autobody work would not use spray transfer)
The end of the wire melts into a little ball and drops to the weld zone.
In most usages there is no contact between the wire and the base metal for more than a few milliseconds at a time as it creates its short circuit.
I would think you will be lucky if you can get consistent "sticks".
Going to be an interesting experiment. Keep us posted

Edit: most MIG machines today use a short circuit globular transfer method, which is not true globular transfer. It is in those milliseconds that the wire contacts the base metal and creates the short circuit which increases the heat and forms that nice little ball (glob) of metal to transfer.


That is a basic idea , there are many text books explaining it far more involved.

 

[MARTINSR]

Ahhhhh

Brian

 

[mike the painter]

MIG welding is usually globular transfer. ( autobody work would not use spray transfer)
The end of the wire melts into a little ball and drops to the weld zone.
In most usages there is no contact between the wire and the base metal for more than a few milliseconds at a time as it creates its short circuit.
I would think you will be lucky if you can get consistent "sticks".
Going to be an interesting experiment. Keep us posted

Edit: most MIG machines today use a short circuit globular transfer method, which is not true globular transfer. It is in those milliseconds that the wire contacts the base metal and creates the short circuit which increases the heat and forms that nice little ball (glob) of metal to transfer.


That is a basic idea , there are many text books explaining it far more involved.

You may have something there OF,yesterday I played around with disconnecting the ground while welding and it was deffinetly all about the timing,I was averaging about two out of ten trys by releasing the trigger and the ground at exactly the same time ..when I had someone else remove the ground we culdnt get it to work at all ..It is possible though.The few that stuck and feed the wire out were stuck very well and I couldnt pull them off with plyers, theres going to be more to it than just a switch at the ground...
I know its possible and heres why (bare with me)...back in 76-78 I was working at a friends shop when a salesman came in to demonstrate a new welder called a mig,at that time no shops had one and I never saw anything like it, anyway he demonstrated it ,how to weld and showed all us how ez it was to weld with,we were pretty impressed with it to say the least,,,as an encore he showed us a feature that floored us ,we had a chevy truck door laying there with a 4" rust hole where the bolt s for those big mirrors go, he ground around the hole to get clean metal and did something he called speggettii weld ,the wire welded itself to one side of the hole then the wire feed out until it reached the other side and when it made contact it welded itself to the other side,he kept repeting this until the hole had wire covering it like spokes on a wheel then he hit a button and all the spokes glowed red hot welding themselves to each other ,the hole was welded up...I never forgot that.. my buddy did buy that welder and we were one of the first shops around to have a mig welder.as it turned out it wasnt a very good way to patch a hole so we never used the feature and I never saw it again on any other machine...
So it is possible,I'm just not smart enough to figure it out myself......Wheres old red??? I'll bet he can shed some light on this

 

[tech69]

HF is the LAST resort as far as I am concerned.

Brian

not really. I gotta ask, how often do you use your tools? I use mine everyday, and for the ones I use everyday I like to get good tools. For ones that I don't, Harbor Freight is fine. Where would I be without that awesome HF scriber pen? Where would I be without that HF spring loaded punch? Where would I have been at my first job without all those HF tools I eventually replaced with better brands later? Where would I be without those blue Harbor Freight gloves that last a lot longer than all the fancy Shmancy gloves on the market. I still have 4 brand new pairs of them cause they're so good. Man, I'm ok with Harbor Freight and I learned what's a go and what's not by trial and error. No other tool brand has gotten me out of so many binds....and I don't owe any salesmen coming to the shop collecting. With that said, most of my tools aren't Harbor Freight, but once were.

Anyhow, HF stud gun=poo poo.

Sorry for the highjack, back to the subject at hand

 

[MARTINSR]

When I was using my tools everyday, they were the same as today 95% top of the line stuff. This includes my home repair tools and gardening tools. I personally hate using anything that isn't top of the line. This includes in the kitchen, my guitar and so on. I pick and choose the HF type stuff very carefully. My HF stapler that I put my top on my Convertible with, HECK YES that sucker did the job and the $17 I paid for it was killer! But again, kinda like my using all the same brand paint, it is what I started doing. Back 35 years ago at my second job a Snap On man came by and I bought my 1/4 socket set that I still have and never stopped. But back then, there was no Harbor Freight, there was Sears and Monkey Wards, that was about it for tools, that and a few at the parts store. Things are quite different now so maybe I would do totally different today I don't know.

Brian

 

[MARTINSR]

You may have something there OF,yesterday I played around with disconnecting the ground while welding and it was deffinetly all about the timing,I was averaging about two out of ten trys by releasing the trigger and the ground at exactly the same time ..when I had someone else remove the ground we culdnt get it to work at all ..It is possible though.The few that stuck and feed the wire out were stuck very well and I couldnt pull them off with plyers, theres going to be more to it than just a switch at the ground...
I know its possible and heres why (bare with me)...back in 76-78 I was working at a friends shop when a salesman came in to demonstrate a new welder called a mig,at that time no shops had one and I never saw anything like it, anyway he demonstrated it ,how to weld and showed all us how ez it was to weld with,we were pretty impressed with it to say the least,,,as an encore he showed us a feature that floored us ,we had a chevy truck door laying there with a 4" rust hole where the bolt s for those big mirrors go, he ground around the hole to get clean metal and did something he called speggettii weld ,the wire welded itself to one side of the hole then the wire feed out until it reached the other side and when it made contact it welded itself to the other side,he kept repeting this until the hole had wire covering it like spokes on a wheel then he hit a button and all the spokes glowed red hot welding themselves to each other ,the hole was welded up...I never forgot that.. my buddy did buy that welder and we were one of the first shops around to have a mig welder.as it turned out it wasnt a very good way to patch a hole so we never used the feature and I never saw it again on any other machine...
So it is possible,I'm just not smart enough to figure it out myself......Wheres old red??? I'll bet he can shed some light on this

How about a momentary switch normally on, so when you touch your foot to it, the ground is broken? It would be way easier for you to get into a rhythm with your foot and finger to hit at the perfect time to make it stick?

I remember that first time seeing a MIG too, we forget what an amazing tool it is! But I have to tell you, I am dying to pull out my torch (haven't fired it in years) when I do my truck. You talk about memories.

Brian

 

[Oldguy48]

Back to the original question, how about a Ford type starter solenoid, controlled by a normally open foot switch, or even a push button. Power it from a battery charger or a car battery, and connect the solenoid in the ground lead circuit. No modifications to the welder, and easy to hook up.

 

[mike the painter]

Back to the original question, how about a Ford type starter solenoid, controlled by a normally open foot switch, or even a push button. Power it from a battery charger or a car battery, and connect the solenoid in the ground lead circuit. No modifications to the welder, and easy to hook up.

I think I'll try that and see what happens...

 

[41'srfun]

Back to the original question, how about a Ford type starter solenoid, controlled by a normally open foot switch, or even a push button. Power it from a battery charger or a car battery, and connect the solenoid in the ground lead circuit. No modifications to the welder, and easy to hook up.

Now that's a good idea! I also thought about an emergency stop buttom from some kind of industrial machine that you could just press with your foot, but it would have capable of carrying probably at least 30 amps or more.

 

[ragtopXKR]

Easy/Free way to leave the wire attached.

If you are using a wire feed welder you can start your weld and then let go of the trigger. Then disconnect your ground wire and you will be able to feed wire by pressing the trigger and no current will flow.

 

[lust4speed]

Maybe a safer way to accomplish this is to simply run an additional feed wire to the spool motor operated by a momentary switch. Then you would stop your weld as normal by releasing the trigger, but the wire would continue to feed until you released the motor switch (probably foot operated).

 

[jwvess00]

The Bumblebee stud welder is rather nice indeed. We usually don't weld the studs on very tight, and are often able to pull them off or cut them off with sidecutters and reuse them a couple of times. This doesn't put as much heat into the panel, and there's a lot less grinding. It also means that you're not able to pull as hard without the stud coming off, but often that's not a Bad Thing.

Anyway, for the MIG idea, I think you're working too hard. Tack the wire to the panel, shut down the welder, and loosen the wire tension. You shouldn't have any trouble pulling the wire through the gun that way.

 

[rusthater89]

Use a coat hanger or some metal stick you can melt into the weld puddle.

 

[Pervsrodshop]

Not sure if someone mentioned this yet (hopefully I didn't over look it) But Eastwood company actually makes an adapter for a mig welder to weld on studs. Pretty cool attachment they also have one for spot welding. Check them out. Eastwood.com

 

[MadMacs]

You could use some ox-acetylene rod in a 16th to 1/8th diameter.. The raw length of rods are 36 inches long. Take lineman's pliers and bend an 1/8th - 1/4 inch long L-shape at the end for a spot tack. Weld it on and cut it off to your usable puller length with the pliers.

Or yeah I have covered holes up to 1/2'' by "bridging them with wire" set my wire tension lite, voltage low and increase the speed enough so I'm kind of welding lightly, takes practice.

But I like to "cheat my heat" welding with a thicker piece of metal to thin; like the thicker (o-a) rod to your .020 weld wire to the sheetmetal body. You have a way to stretch your arc into the base metal but no burn through it... Whatever shape of surface you want to restore or fix right; grab an old door or fender that best represents what your working on and practice your ideas and skills, filler material, paints or aftermarket tools.

Then you will figure it out.:thumbup:

 

[leon renaud]

HTP and Eastwood both sell a gas cup for mig that will let you set regular studs with just a quick weld.Drop a stud in the little side tube in the gas cup and zap done! I doubt very much you'll pull anything using mig wire. like someone already said just tack on some washers but buy the cheapest unplated ones you can find plating needs more weld current to burn that the sheetmetal you'll either get a poor bond to the washer or burn through your sheetmetal because yoiu'll use higher heat than needed.

 

[mike the painter]

Guys,I have a stud welder,studs,etc...What I'm trying to do is use the migs wire to pull the small dings and dents with a tiny little grind spot in the paint...The problem Im having is when I break ground contact and the current stops ,the wire seperates from the weld insted of welding the wire to the metal ..it seems to be a matter of timing because Ive done it but its hit and miss...I havent had much time to play around with it so far this week but try it ,it's pretty tough to do ...If I can figure it out It'll be pretty handy.I did get a ford solinoid at the parts store when I was there so when do have the time I'll have everything I need to try it out...I just dont think its going to be that simple...But you never know...everything starts with an idea..

Heres a little trick for you stud welder guys...welding the studs lightly and wiggling them side to side after pulling will sometimes work for pulling them off intact But you can reuse 100% of your studs even if you clip them off, all you have to do is bend them at a 90 so they have a little L shape...
dont forget to clean that tip and outer ground ring ,its an elactrical connection and to get the best preformance you need clean contacts,this will cut down the burn throughs and allow better quick zaps

 

[Merdawg]

The DawgHouse

Simple try a ground disconnect, no ground no weld. Still feeds