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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2018, 02:29 PM
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Is the shed closer to the house box or the garage box?

Cheap household 120 v. plugs and outlets(50 cents) are 15 amp with #16 - #14 cord wires... (#16 - #18 x 13 amp extension cords available for about $1 and up)

Commercial duty 120v. plugs and outlets are 20 amp... they look about the same, but the 20 amp are made a little better and usually cost more... and the cords are usually #12 wire... They are often also used in the kitchen and garage and outdoor outlets.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-100-12-...-/391894906431

Wire one end direct to a 20 amp breaker/neutral bar/box ground... a 20 amp outlet/box on the other end

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Last edited by BuzzLOL; 03-23-2018 at 02:34 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2018, 07:52 PM
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We run 240 and 480 extension cords all the time. 50 -100 feet. I would make one of these then put a temp panel in the building with the car in it with a short male plug on it. Plug one end into the garage panel and the other end into the temp panel with breakers in it. Just roll up the cord when not using it. The cord we use is made up of 12awg wire. The part number is P-241-3-MSHA. Google it or call your local electrical wholesaler.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
what welder? if it can run on a 120V 20A plug. probably
with voltage drop you need bigger wire to make up for the length of run, not a bigger breaker
10 gauge wire should have a 30A breaker max, but i'd try it on a 20A breaker first to be legit

my barn 200 ft away from the house has a 30 amp 240 volt panel wired with 10 ga wire underground from the main house panel
i can use a 20A lincoln weldpac100 with the lights on, if the 240v 15A compressor kicks on, i back off welding
same with table saw: if the compressor is running, no sense turning on the saw
i build a lot of projects out there: automotive, welding, woodworking, etc...
pic of barn taken from back porch
Lets take this one thing at a time. Your breaker 99% of the time is sized to the wire being used, but yes you can bump up the wire size beyond a smaller breaker but that is usually for long runs with smaller amp breakers used. 120v with a 20 amp breaker uses 12 gauge wire and will give you 20 amps at 100 feet (voltage drop starts @ 100 feet), at 200 feet bump the wire to next gauge which will be 10 gauge wire, at 300 feet bump the wire to 8 gauge and still you will be using the 20 amp breaker for that 300 foot run. 20 amps = 2400 watts, counting up what your tools uses in wattage will help you to not over draw the usage or demand from a given circuit. 15 amp circuit = 1800 watts. Hers the math ( volts X amps = watts) 120 X 15 = 1800, 20 amps is 120 X 20 = 2400.

Now on to your 200 foot 240v run with 10 gauge wire & a 30 amp breaker, That's Not real smart as you haven't did the math correctly for the 200 foot distance. With the 10 gauge wire you are Starving your demand for the run of 200 feet. Too run all your equipment as you have found out that you can't all at once the wire size needs to be bumped up another gauge to 8 gauge or even 6 gauge to run every thing you want at once. I see a lot of Wasted time waiting for your compressor to fill up with air before you can use any thing else or even turn on more lights. ******But hey what do I know I'm just an old retired Electrician with 25 yrs experience under my belt and I also have a Woodworking shop in my garage that is capable of running my 220v Unisaw, my Jointer and even my Plainer all at once as well with the compressor and the lights on. I have a 40 foot run using 6 gauge wire & a 60 amp double pole breaker with absolutely no problems. Wire is cheep compared to having to replace a table saw @ $3000 if it has burnt up due to lack of power/electricity.
Just giving a lesson for the correct way to use Electricity properly when distance comes into play.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Hi I'm trying to find out if I need to put in a dedicated circuit to run a 100' 10 gauge extension cord. I actually have 220 available and I'm wondering if I can simply run off of that with an adapter and not worry about voltage drops? Or should I put in a 110 with a 35A breaker? Thanks.
First of all a 12 gauge extension cord will handle 20 amps at 100 feet just fine its when you go more that 100 feet you would go to a 10 gauge extension cord but its always a good idea to use a larger gauge wire extension cord for good insurance purposes anyway.

Just to let you know your tools will tell you what amps or wattage they use or need. Here's a scenario for what you would be doing to your tool using a 35 amp breaker and your tool only rated for 15 or 20 amps, if the tool was to have a short it would probably burn up first because of the tool rated for 15 or 20 amps, while burning up it is waiting for the 35 amp breaker to trip

Look at your welder for what it needs for amperage, usually a 110v or 120v welder will need 20 amps to run for a distance of 100 feet. Any 20 amp circuit will do, but its when that circuit has other things running off it at the same time is where you will have a problem.

Too solve your concerns Yes a Dedicated 20 amp circuit will solve the problem for 100 foot run. Any thing more that the 100 foot you will need to bump up your extension cord to the next higher size of wire like a 10 gauge wire extension cord.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Hi thanks. My project 57 BelAir is in a shed roughly 60 feet away from my garage which has the power. I've thought about powering the shed directly but I don't know how long I'll be living there. The electrical panel is in the garage along with the 220 outlet that sits completely idle. I already have amp draw problems on the 110 outlets in the garage so I've got to pick a direction for the Welder.
What is being used for wire in the 220 outlet? 14 or 12 or 10 gauge wire, all three wires can be used for 220 volts. The breaker usually dictates the wire size being used. We need more info for this 220v outlet?

I dont know about Boston Electric Codes but in Calif. a garage has at least two 20 amp circuits equaling each 2400 watts. Check to see what your garage plugs and circuits breakers are 15 amp or 20 amp or even 30 amp breakers.
A 12 gauge extension cord at more than75 feet but not more than 100 feet is alright
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
A 15 amp plug on 30 amp extension cord wires?

I'd prolly get some #12 house wiring and wire it to one outside terminal and the middle terminal of a dryer plug... put a 20 amp duplex outlet box on the other end... for a temporary set up... string it over the driveway so it isn't getting driven on...

Whats wrong with a 15 amp plugs with 30 amp wire (10 gauge) that's pretty common in the Construction trade for or on 100 foot extension cords!

The OP has to give us more info on the 220v garage plug be for any other suggestions can be given to him...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
What amperage breaker is the 220 V outlet connected to?

Were you going to run 2, 3, or 4 #10 wires out to the shed? (hot, hot, neutral, safety ground)
Where are you coming up with running 2,3,or 4 #10 wires out to the shed?
I don't know where you have read anything on running wires of (2,3,or 4 # 10 wires) anywhere? So far the OP has been asking about a 100 foot Extension Cord not separate wire.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
I'll take a look at powering the shed but I'd still like to consider an extension cord to keep the costs down. How critical is the 15A issue with the ends on a 10A wire? Most have those ends. This is for ~19 gauge welding on my 57.
First of all nothing wrong with 15 amp plugs on a 10 gauge wire ( you said 10A wire) I took that for a typo! You really need to see what your welder needs for Amperage 15 or 20 will dictate your wire size needed.

FIRST THINGS FIRST, get all the specs (input amps for the welder) from the welder you want to use and go from there. A comes before B and C comes after B and so on...
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
So I decided to call Hobart to get their take and maybe this will help somebody. He told me that the distance run starts at the breaker. I can get 25 feet closer to the shed and avoid cutting the driveway pavement by running 6 gauge off a 50A breaker on the main panel to a remote panel on the other side of the garage. Off the remote panel I would have a few 20A dedicated outlets. From there I can use a 50' 10 gauge extension cord with 15A ends safely. The Hobart 140 won't draw even 15A continuous doing tack welds on 19 gauge steel.

A slight variation to this plan would be to go underground from the remote panel and wire the shed properly. That is far more feasible from a remote panel because its under grass not the paved driveway.

Meant to add: he said a 75-100' pure extension cord run would really need 8 gauge to avoid voltage drops but for my use case it was a pretty marginal requirement vs. 10 gauge.

Hobart is wrong by stating 75-100' really needs a 8 gauge cord (BS) on his part. 8 gauge wire is rated for 40-55 amps pertaining to temperatures

In Calif. the NEC code book (National Electrical Code) states voltage drop starts at 100 feet and beyond with ANY size gauge of wire used.

50 foot to 75 foot extension cords @ 15 amps are fine.
75 foot to 100 foot extension cords @ 20 amps are fine.
100 foot extension cords and beyond is recommended to use 10 gauge wire.
All the above cord lengths suggestions would be for One (1) single tool usage.

Last edited by mjgord51; 03-28-2018 at 05:21 AM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
code requires 24 inches deep, there are exception for being in rigid conduit or under concrete
garage panel run from house panel is considered a sub panel, it needs 4 wires: 2 hots, neutral and ground
that said get a ditcher that goes 3 feet or more, water line at the bottom, power line above it
every garage needs water

Direct Burial wire is 24 inch. Nonmetallic Raceways PVC is 18 inches per calif. NEC book...
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
Is the shed closer to the house box or the garage box?

Cheap household 120 v. plugs and outlets(50 cents) are 15 amp with #16 - #14 cord wires... (#16 - #18 x 13 amp extension cords available for about $1 and up)

Commercial duty 120v. plugs and outlets are 20 amp... they look about the same, but the 20 amp are made a little better and usually cost more... and the cords are usually #12 wire... They are often also used in the kitchen and garage and outdoor outlets.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-100-12-...-/391894906431

Wire one end direct to a 20 amp breaker/neutral bar/box ground... a 20 amp outlet/box on the other end
First of all a plugs can be 15-60 amps for household uses and a outlet can be a plug or a switch but most of all its a point on the wiring system at which Current is taken to supply utilization equipment (Plugs, Switches, GFIC Receptacles, Hearer Switches) pretty much any thing you can install in a electrical wall box.
Never seen a 13 amp extension cord in my 25+ yrs as a Journeyman Electrician but who knows what other states have.
Commercial duty 120v plugs and outlets are not limited just to 20amps, can go all the way up to 50 amps. Yes 20 amp plugs and switchs are a heaver built piece. They are required in kitchens, breakfast nooks, laundry rooms, bath rooms, garages, pool areas as well as any dedicated circuits. As for outdoor uses only not true any 15 or 20 amp plug can be used.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjgord51 View Post
Never seen a 13 amp extension cord in my 25+ yrs as a Journeyman Electrician
Now you've seen a 13 amp extension cord...:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-6-ft...2601/100672784

The Dollar Stores sell them for a dollar, also...

And a 10 amp one...:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-100-...-525/100650619

After 50 years of a GM/GTE electrical engineer, and 60+ years of an electrical hobbyist, I've about seen it all...
.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjgord51 View Post
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
we should all bow to mjgord51 for his infinite wisdom and pointing out his 25 years as a union electrician and knowledge of ca code many times

and not answering the op's question or helping in anyway

yes we should all have a big panel in our shops, that wasn't the question
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
Now you've seen a 13 amp extension cord...:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-6-ft...2601/100672784

The Dollar Stores sell them for a dollar, also...

And a 10 amp one...:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-100-...-525/100650619

After 50 years of a GM/GTE electrical engineer, and 60+ years of an electrical hobbyist, I've about seen it all...
.

My bad for the (never seen) part, should have said/read (never used). This is what happens when staying up all night and being awake for 24 hours straight. Don't know why anybody would suggest using that small of cord to someone for getting power for a 100' run and from someone that's an Engineer from this and that company that's just dumb. The idea is to help him not to burn up his tools. I think my input and suggestions will give him something to work with. Your quote if I may use it "I've about seen it all" there's more than one way to skin a cat, yep!
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
we should all bow to mjgord51 for his infinite wisdom and pointing out his 25 years as a union electrician and knowledge of ca code many times

and not answering the op's question or helping in anyway

yes we should all have a big panel in our shops, that wasn't the question
All I was doing was pointing out what others gave for incorrect input in this matter of long distance runs of 100' and the use of an extension cord may it be 10,13,15,20 or even 30 amp cords. Information is what the OP was asking about and if you were paying attention that's what some was doing, As for your first paragraph above statement "quote" ( 25 years as a union electrician) Nowhere did I state I was an Union Electrician JUST that I had 25 years under my belt! If you are going to through Mud then you need to have the Right ammunition first.
I think I gave the right Math answers for him to figure out his distance problem. Wow 114 times typing "Blah Blah Blah"ect ect Hummmmmmmmm, you must be putting from left field. Sorry if Clarification puts salt in the wound. Every thing I gave or posted was for the OP to get his problem salved was my only intentions.

Last edited by mjgord51; 03-28-2018 at 12:03 PM.
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