1953 Chevy Pick-up with 1977 Nova subframe - Page 4 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans Advertise
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2013, 06:35 PM
496CHEVY3100's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 53 ad3100
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,262
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3,586
Thanked 2,693 Times in 1,669 Posts
This is a comparison ,with the weight of straight axle and 2 spring packs vs. the lighter stamped steel clip ,I guess weight might be close to same.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SANY0442.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	1.20 MB
ID:	84162   Click image for larger version

Name:	SANY0444.jpg
Views:	219
Size:	1.42 MB
ID:	84170  

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2013, 06:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ohio
Age: 72
Posts: 996
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 139 Times in 122 Posts
On a stock Nova the center of the crossmember is about 6" from the ground. That's what I use to determine ride height. A G and F bodies are about the same.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2013, 09:13 PM
kso's Avatar
kso kso is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 460
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 91 Times in 80 Posts
Optimal ride height of a factory suspension re-assigned for some other application is not determined by anything except the angles between the various pivot points (outer ball joint center, inner bushings etc.) resulting in a roll center appropriate to the vehicle c/g height, with all things incl. tire diameter considered. All other dimensions are or should-be incidental. The constructor has to work it out from there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 08:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kso View Post
Optimal ride height of a factory suspension re-assigned for some other application is not determined by anything except the angles between the various pivot points (outer ball joint center, inner bushings etc.) resulting in a roll center appropriate to the vehicle c/g height, with all things incl. tire diameter considered. All other dimensions are or should-be incidental. The constructor has to work it out from there.
I agree! It seems like there are many variables.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:38 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
You know what, I just got to thinking, the upper control arm shaft on these front ends is at an angle, it's called "anti-dive". The bottom ball joint may not move forward or back, but the upper one does, thus the hub mount ("axle") WOULD move forward and back thru the arch of the suspension travel. How much it goes down when the weight is in it would determine where that axle/hub mount ends up. Like I said, I am sorry, I need to KNOW things and I wouldn't personally do that, just my opinion, that is why I did as I did so there was no doubt.

Brian
Well, I guess I need to do some experimenting to see how much movement there is. Personally, I feel 3/4" would be a huge amount of shift.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #51 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 10:57 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,323
Thanked 6,882 Times in 4,383 Posts
Or you could replace the shocks with all-thread just as I did.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:11 AM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 52
Posts: 17,600
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 270
Thanked 3,182 Times in 2,670 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Or you could replace the shocks with all-thread just as I did.

Brian
This is how I've done it also, and have been told by several good sources to squeeze it down until the lower A-arm is parallel with the ground. This gets the roll and anti dive characteristics, along with the camber curve during suspension travel very close to factory intended behavior for the subframe's original application.

Worked out well for the '52 Ford truck I did for a friend, using a mid-70's Camaro subframe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to ericnova72 For This Useful Post:
MARTINSR (09-27-2013)
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:13 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,323
Thanked 6,882 Times in 4,383 Posts
It just makes perfect sense to me. It's like test fitting a door before painting it, it's VERY good time spent. The time spent trying to figure it out without doing this takes longer than just putting the all thread and setting it up at actual ride height.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 12:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
It just makes perfect sense to me. It's like test fitting a door before painting it, it's VERY good time spent. The time spent trying to figure it out without doing this takes longer than just putting the all thread and setting it up at actual ride height.

Brian
I have not had any luck finding the ride height specs. All I am finding are the schematics for frame dimensions and heights, but nothing about the distance from the rubber bumper.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 01:08 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,323
Thanked 6,882 Times in 4,383 Posts
As others have said, if the lower control arms are level, you are there. Level forward and back and side to side. If you looked under the front bumper of that 77 Nova the control arms would be level from the frame to the spindle.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #56 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 03:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
As others have said, if the lower control arms are level, you are there. Level forward and back and side to side. If you looked under the front bumper of that 77 Nova the control arms would be level from the frame to the spindle.

Brian
Ok, so the bottom control arms are banana shaped. Where are you leveling them from side to side? Is it across the cup that the coil spring sits in?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #57 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 03:15 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 60
Posts: 16,158
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,323
Thanked 6,882 Times in 4,383 Posts
I'm sorry I don't have one of those cars in front of me so I can't say.

Post the question at the Team Nova site and someone should be able to take a photo of theirs. Team Nova and Chevy 2 Automotive Technical Question & Answer Forum - Novas.net

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 03:35 PM
kso's Avatar
kso kso is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 460
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 91 Times in 80 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heilman181 View Post
Ok, so the bottom control arms are banana shaped. Where are you leveling them from side to side? Is it across the cup that the coil spring sits in?
The pivot points are what matters. If you could measure from the ground up to the bottom of the lower ball joint near the wheel and add 3/4" or so to get the height to it's center...then measure from the ground to the center of the bolts that go through the lower a-arm bushings, at their other end...and have those be the same, then the lower control arms would be "level".

If at the level position your upper a-arms are angled down at all, even a tiny bit which they probably are, then your roll center is going to happen to be at the height where you just measured your lower ball joint centers and bushing centers, like six inches or whatever. That's good for a car but for a truck you'd want the roll center up a bit...attainable by increasing the dimension of the inner pivot point over the outer, by an inch or two as a flying guess. I.E., raise the suspension a little.

Would be best to have it drawn out or have a working model, and it might make more sense. At any rate, don't be fooled by any shape of particular components...it's all about the pivot points.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #59 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 06:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Or you could replace the shocks with all-thread just as I did.

Brian
Brian, just so that I understand this I am not compressing the spring between the upper/lower control arms, correct?

If I replace the shock with all thread, then I am pulling the lower control arm up since the top of the shock is stationary. Isn't this going to result in the spring pushing the upper control arm up? Thus "abnormally" shifting my spindle location along the arc?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #60 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2013, 06:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
RANDY??????????????????

I am still puzzled by the "lower ball joint" as centerline of work.

If I am reading this right, the spindle location will shift forward when under weight.

Right now, my lower ball joint center is 3/4" behind my spindle centerline. By your process, I need to shift my Nova subframe 3/4" forward. If I do so, that will have my spindle 3/4" front of center WITHOUT any weight on the chassis.

If the spindle moves forward under weight, then WITH weight that will make my wheel even farther forward in the wheel well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rear end gear ratio in 1977 chevy pick up. Prettymfer Transmission - Rearend 3 09-20-2011 10:45 PM
1953 chevy subframe adriang011 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 5 10-10-2010 01:28 PM
1977 Chevy Nova Back Seat Daltonfriedel Interior 1 07-26-2010 11:37 AM
68-72 Nova subframe to 49 Chevy P/U ronbo78 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 4 11-02-2008 10:59 PM
1953 Chevy Pick-up greywulf Introduce Yourself 5 10-10-2004 12:04 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.