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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2006, 07:58 PM
 
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1st GM...now Ford

Last week GM announced big cutbacks, now Ford is announcing a 28% cutback as well. Lots of people are losing jobs. This is an election year? Can you say globalization? We as a nation have to compete better in the world market, not just the auto market either, things have to change. They will. Bad to worse before getting better?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2006, 09:25 PM
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Well, it seems that job creation is no longer an issue. It's merely stockholders and such. They'll set up more shops down in Mexico. Who knows maybe they'll put some plants in China so they can get in on the action.

I guess all of the misplaced workers can work for eight bucks an hour and become a drain on society.
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:46 AM
 
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Confused?

The news report stated Ford was profitable though-out the entire world except for the North American market. This indicates Ford needs to do better in the US and Canada and they will be back on track. Most of the overseas market is compact cars and utility vehicles(trucks and vans). It appears that Ford and GM have a major problem competing with the imports for a share of the midrange family sedan market at home. Ford has some new models hitting the streets that may turn the situation around for them. It just may be that they need a major restructure of the companies. We all want a good dependable car with all the modern bells and whistles, but at an affordable price. I'm not an economics expert, but I believe it takes a lot of savvy to stay on top in the auto market.
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:22 AM
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GM and Ford lose a lot of the market here in the US,
to japanese car makers, because of fuel efficiency.
Also It's my experience that in Mexico, If its not from
Ford or GM its not worth buying, because money
plays a big role while buying parts and quality.
Most people there just can't affort to buy imported
parts for Nissan, Toyota or Honda vehicles.
Its like someone already mention, they're doing better
in other places, so they're moving their business there.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:39 PM
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The fact that our tax structure slams business and penalizes success does not help Ford's situation, nor does the UAW. Neal Boortz brought up a good point in Neal's Nuze that alot of the people working in an auto factory have either a UAW bumper sticker on their car or wear a UAW jacket or shirt, but very few wear a Ford or Chevy jacket. It seems they forgot that they work for Ford,not the unions. I'll probably get slammed for saying that, but loyalty does go both ways.
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA1
The fact that our tax structure slams business and penalizes success does not help Ford's situation, nor does the UAW. Neal Boortz brought up a good point in Neal's Nuze that alot of the people working in an auto factory have either a UAW bumper sticker on their car or wear a UAW jacket or shirt, but very few wear a Ford or Chevy jacket. It seems they forgot that they work for Ford,not the unions. I'll probably get slammed for saying that, but loyalty does go both ways.
This is not intended as any kind of slam, when I have seen the media (on the news) outside of one of the manufactures interviewing the workers as they leave, the majority drive that company's vehicles.
When you have lower cost competition you have a difficult time in the same market. Most of the foreign competition is manufactured right here in the US, the plants are generally located in milder climates which has a big impact on cost along with throughly modern facilities. You can't forget the massive tax breaks that are given to these companies to locate where they do. Whenever there is a new plant that is going to be built, every city that wants it puts together an incentive package consisting of state and local tax breaks. Wages and benefits are a factor also, but people deserve to make a decent wage.
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:17 PM
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This is a real shame, in Atlanta were losing a GM plant and a Ford plant and Delta is on the rocks.

All three of these problems have been in the making for years and who is to blame?

All three companies have the same culprits!
Tax system
Govt regulations (expenses associated with them)
Unions (protecting the dead beat workers that don't work)
Management (or lack of!)

What I mean by dead beats is I hear from friends all the time the union getting jobs back for people caught stealing or sleeping on the job at these plants.
Now the good workers are paying the price.

The ONLY good thing I can say about this is the unions will take a real beating with loss of membership dues and hopefully go bust!
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:42 PM
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I think it sucks that people are losing their jobs, but I honestly don't think there's anything ford can do about it. They're eating the mistakes they made back in the 80's with all the other American car makers. Its going to take a lot for Ford and even more for GM to become competitive again with the Japanese cars. Consumer confidence has been in the gutter for years with American cars and its finally hit them where it hurts!

Ford has to cut these jobs, and I think we can thank the unions for a big part of this. They just don't seem to understand that unless some sacrifices are made now and some people lose their jobs, EVERYBODY is going to lose their job later. I think Ford is doing a decent job trying to be responsible about these cuts. You just can't keep pumping money into plants that are working at 75% efficiency and turning out cars that (unfortunately) people just aren't buying! You know, ever since this war started gas prices hit the roof. If you want another item to point the finger at why ford's specialty cars aren't selling (I.e. the wixom plant closure (1600 jobs lost in Michigan's already floundering economy)) you can point to that too. Truth is I really think there's a lot of factors involved, and I don't think this has much at all to do with corporate greed. It has to do with keeping a cornerstone of our economy afloat. You guys think you'll have it bad, think of what Michigan is going through right now! Visteon and Delphi are in bankruptcy. DTW Northwest hub is laying off folks left and right because northwest air is bankrupt, so all the airline mechanics got the shaft. GM is on the Bankruptcy watch list and ford is barely making ends meet. On top of that, Chrysler is now owned by the Germans, so most of their cuts take place here in the states, not to mention all those dollars for car sales end up overseas now! Come down to Detroit sometime and look at the mess this has all created, its awful!

K
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:51 PM
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Yea, this whole situation really sucks. I'm going to work for Ford in july as an engineer so hopefully I won't get canned. I also heard somewhere that 1200 dollars or so of each car's profit goes towards paying union associated costs. I don't have anything against unions but there are quite a few people in the union that tend to take advantage of the whole system. I've worked around enough unions to see this. Plus, a lot of factory workers are getting paid just as much money, if not more, than the salaried employees. I have a friend that works at the Ford casting plant in cleveland, and some of the line workers make 29 bucks an hour, not to mention the vacations and benefits they get. It kinda makes me regret paying to go to school when I could've just worked on a factory line out of high school and be making some good money by now. So, obviously something needs to be done. It's sad that it's gotten to this point where they have to get rid of that many people. But, that's the way our economy goes.
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:42 PM
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I think the most probable cause is the lack of loyalty to our American labor force. I try to buy only American made products, however, that is not always possible. If we all (by that, I mean American citizens) just buy Foreign products, there is no way possible for our plants and factories to maintain a profit margin sufficient to sustain a high level of employment. I agree with USA1, our tax system need some serious changes made, the sooner the better.

Al
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr8 '48 bow tie

I think the most probable cause is the lack of loyalty to our American labor force. I try to buy only American made products, however, that is not always possible.
You mean AMERICAN products assembled from off-shore components by illegal workers in sweatshops that do not comply with basic wage and comp law ?

FORD has only itself to blame. After years of not offering what the buying public wanted (other than SUV) and not honoring warranty/customer loyalty as it should have, it has finally caught up with them.
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:24 AM
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Uh, you guys don't think it has ANYTHING to do with the fact that they are paying HUGE legacy cost? Retirees getting paid to do nothing,essentially.
They were overpaid when they were producing, now they make more than a good percentage, just sitting home waiting to die.

BUTTTTTT, Ford/GM agreed to it, so they really have no one to blame.

Then you have health insurance costs that go up 12-15% per year since 94. Makes ya wonder if they can survive.
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenaway2long
Uh, you guys don't think it has ANYTHING to do with the fact that they are paying HUGE legacy cost? Retirees getting paid to do nothing,essentially.
They were overpaid when they were producing, now they make more than a good percentage, just sitting home waiting to die.

Sure, I think it has probably more to do with than than anything else- its their obvious problem. Handing out government-style retirement benefits 30 years ago didn't seem short-sighted, everybody was doing it and there was no competition.

I don't know if retirees are getting paid to do nothing, though. If you work 30 years you've earned the right to enjoy the rest of your days without having to worry about a paycheck. The fact that Ford planned those retirements poorly is not the workers' fault. THe new 401K style retirements are much smarter, I think. It makes each worker more responsible for their future, and allows the employer to assist with management of funds.

K
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:35 AM
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I'm a UAW member local 2000 in Avon Ohio

I'm one of the lucky ones, I still have a job after 15 yrs service. We build Econoline vans...the only plant that does in all the USA. We have 750 body's in GEN/the labor pool without jobs getting 40 hr pay checks every week but don't have a job to go to every day. Our plant manager/Mona talked to us Monday after Ford's big announcement...the first question she asked was why there were so man NEW foreign and GM cars and trucks in the lot and so few New Fords out there? Why were we/the labor force at Ohio Assembly NOT supporting the company we worked for? I would have suggest a LACK design...econc box thinking that drove Ford to this point might be a good reason. Except for the Mustang the rest of Fords line-up are crap and foreign built!! Look at what Chrysler has done in the design and introduction of new and innovative products!! Someone in Ford's design headquarters need's to remove their head from their BUTT and see that the future need's changes!! By 2012 we will loose 35,000 people from the work force at FO MO CO. Ford will close 14 plants by 2008. Doom and gloom are here, the wolf is right at the door...and this house is NOT made of brick!!! The American Auto industry can't afford to continue to loose profit shares to the Jap and European car makers. We need to capture the young American buyers $$$$$$$$ and make new models that interest them or this industry will fail...sooner that anyone wants to think it could. Remember guys, buy American...if you can find one thats actually built in American that is!! Ford calls it globalization...we here at Ohio Assembly call it being built in Mexico...or South America or China...and no jobs for our kids!!!

Tazz
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Old 01-25-2006, 11:10 AM
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[/QUOTE]The ONLY good thing I can say about this is the unions will take a real beating with loss of membership dues and hopefully go bust![/QUOTE]

People like to blame everything on unions, in virtually every trade the unions set the wage scale for the non-unions. Eliminate the union jobs and the non-union pay scale will decrease.
The packing plants in IA. are paying the same scale as they did 20 years ago, used to be decent paying jobs, they don't have to keep up with inflation, just hire illegals or the latest immigrant group.
Be careful of what you wish for.
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