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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 07:55 PM
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And both Brian and I have your best interest at heart and appreciate the wanting to learn attitude. to start off with, I now see your from the UK...that might explain why I've never heard of the product that your using...and even though SPI was recommended and they do have some European distribution...I really don't know if they have any distribution in the UK.

When you say 1K base coat, I'm assuming that you mean base color with reducer, no hardner...that is similar to the solvent based base coats we have here...and yes, they do dry faster than a 2K clear...but, the solvents need to be completely gone before applying clear coat otherwise solvents will be trapped. Also, using a slow reducer in your base coat at the temperatures that you where spraying the base coat, I can virtually tell you for certain that the solvents had not left the base coat before you applied the clear. In the future, try and have a warmer environment for applying either base coat or clear coat...and primers as well. Judging flash times is difficult enough when you have temperatures in the 70 degree range and using a medium reducer...let alone a slow reducer and spraying in the 60 degree range.

I always say that there are so many variables that we can't control, we need to use the right product for the variables that we can.

Ray

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:00 AM
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Maybe the op should leave these out in direct sun light for a week or so. It might help an might not but it won't hurt anything. I painted a panel with 2k black an mistakenly add clear coat hardener to it instead of reducer, it would never harden up so I moved it out side, after about 4 days it harden up, I'll go away now.

Last edited by dogwater; 10-31-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:22 AM
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I have seen that work, sanded then left out in the sun.

Brian
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:58 AM
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True Brian and Dogwater...it does work and it's a good idea...This time of year however, where I live and the OP, if we get 8 hours of daylight a day let alone sunlight, where doing good...LOL

Ray
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:59 PM
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Hello

Sorry about the quick exit last night........ well atleast it was in the uk,
This has been a real insight to me very gratefull for excellant advice

An yes i was refering to the 1k as just basecoat an reducer

Ive gone past the point of repair with the destructive testing so to speak, so a wet sanding an leaving in sun is out of question but i will keep that in mind if im ever unfortunate to have similar troubles.

Anyhows on all the advice greatfully recieved, im going to take it away an use,

1)first of all try a quicker basecoat reducer

2)leave longer flash times between my basecoats (with whats been expalained by both of you im leaning towards its trapped solvents thats the root of the problem) i did give very generous flash times with the clearcoat, but the basecoats been 6 layers an not ideal temperatures an slow reducer an the paint smell only when i chip the paint down to the 1st stage metallic silver which was before candy dye in a basecoat clear as carrier, think i was too hasty with my flash times there

So i'll put this into practice at my next opportunity think it maybe hard to find the spi product to be honest but thanks for the sound advice an i believe that this will solve my troubles

Regards nick
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:47 PM
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I hope it all works out well fr you Rick...and don't be in to much of a hurry to go to faster reducers, especially on a metallic color....the lower reducers help the metallic's to even out...that being said...if the temperatures are warmer and a slow reducer, that's perfect...if your attempting to spray in cooler temperatures, before you speed up the reducer, try and warm up the environment...if possible.

If you have further questions feel free to ask.

Ray
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:50 PM
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it's the UV you need to cure, which is still present even though it isn't necessarily sunny.
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:06 AM
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True Josh, the UV is present, however with cloud cover, the UV index is lower, UV by itself still needs a certain amount of heat, you can throw all the UV you want at paint at -30 and it won't cure...it may freeze dry...LOL.

Ray
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
I hope it all works out well fr you Rick...and don't be in to much of a hurry to go to faster reducers, especially on a metallic color....the lower reducers help the metallic's to even out...that being said...if the temperatures are warmer and a slow reducer, that's perfect...if your attempting to spray in cooler temperatures, before you speed up the reducer, try and warm up the environment...if possible.

If you have further questions feel free to ask.

Ray
Hi

Okay, so going back to the try warmer enviroment first, could i basically lay down all my coats of base be it a single solvent basecoat (for example, lay 3 coats of base with fhe usual 15-20 flash times, but dew to the cold enviroment, could i put the infrared heater on for 5-10 mins, this isntgoin to somehow seal the 3rd pass/coat before the 1st an 2nd have released all there solvents is it)

Regards nick
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:33 PM
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Very Good question Rick...Important temperatures are ambient air temperature and metal/plastic temperature...these should be looked at before using infrared...infrared is designed to cure paint but, if the ambient temperature is low and the surface temperature of the painted surface is cool. infrared will defeat it owns purpose....in short, infrared is designed to speed up the curing process, but if your environment and surface temperatures are low or even at the recommended temperatures for the material, the infrared can't so it's job properly.

So, to answer your question, even if you applied paint material to a cool surface and then used your infrared lamp...the solvent wouldn't properly be released and solvent trapping will occur. As I mentioned, the ideal situation, especially for a metallic color is have the air and metal temperature at about 70 degree, allow proper flash times (and this is where it gets very tricky but I'll try and explain).

You can have temperatures of say 60 degrees and use a fast reducer rated at say 60 degrees...however, evaporation of anything causes cooling. Stick your finger finger in a a container of reducer or even water, take it out and blow on it....your finger will cool, as the reducer evaporates, it will cool your panel, dropping the panel temperature below the minimum requirements, even for a fast solvent...and again, solvents will be trapped. This is where ambient air temperature comes into play, With an ambient air temperature of say 70 degrees, use a slow reducer, the surface temperature will drop but be in the requirements of the product to evaporate and still give you the metallic control needed.

One way to check to see if your base coat has flashed is to apply your base coat to the panel and have another unpainted panel beside it. After the painted surface feels as though it has dried or flashed, feel the painted surface with one hand and with the other hand feel the unpainted surface.....When they feel as though they are the same temperature...the solvent shave left the painted surface. Give it an additional 10 minutes of flash time for insurance purposes and apply the next coat...repeat this process until it it's time to clear (obviously you can't put your hand on flashing clear but, you can feel areas that have over spray. When those areas are sticky, stringy to the touch, not wet and you can feel the catalyst working, it's time for another coat. After your last coat of clear, use your infrared lamp at about 3 feet away, to cure the clear...you don't cure base coat, you cure clear by speeding up the chemical reaction between the catalyst and clear coat...and that's what the infrared lamp does.

I hope this explains and gives you measures you can use to properly judge your flash times, again, if you need more clarification, please feel free to ask.

Ray
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2013, 06:04 PM
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I just reread your posts Nick....sorry I got the name wrong...damn this old age...LOL

Ray
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2013, 09:29 AM
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Its fine made me laugh when i saw it, ive been called worse lol, an back to one of your posts ive actually got one of those laser gun thermomemters so i can take temperature readings without having to touch the panels it just shoots a laser at the object an then takes a temp reading just incase i touch wet paint too soon,
An further to keeping the enviroment warm to help things i guess i could pre-heat the panel been painted an possibly warm the paints a little, its just i havent heating in my garage yet i do plan to get some form of radiator or something installed at some point but as its near christmas its not a option at the minute

Regards nick
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