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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2015, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
NOSTALGIA: circa 1967:

My associate bought a new 1966 Chevt II with a L79 327/350 engine option and a 4-speed transmission.
The L79 cam was called a "350 cam" back in the day. He could run with a local guy that owned a 1965 Corvette equipped with a 327/365, fuel injection, "30-30" solid lifter cam, 4.56 gears, and a 4-speed transmission. Both were low 14 second cars on street tires and closed exhaust. At the time, I had a 1956 Chevrolet Del Ray 2-door sedan equipped with a "over the counter" 327/365 short block, "30-30" cam, 1957 power pack heads equipped with 1.94"/ 1.50" valves, a 1957 intake manifold with a Carter WCFB carburator, a 3-speed O.D. transmission, 12 lb aluminum flywheel, and 4.11 rear gears. My '56 Chevy could turn consistant 15 seconds flat with open headers and 7.50x14 Atlas Buchron tires.


So, it looks like I should set my sights on getting under 15, unless I want to go with a bigger cam and modern heads... I'm hoping I can get under 14.5 without too much trouble (and $$$!)


I've grown up occasionally hearing the story of a neighbor with an ego problem, who went out and bought a new '69 427 Caprice... don't know why he didn't go with a Chevelle... I guess the bigger number was all he saw... and he kept bugging my dad to take his '65 GTO (mom's daily driver) to the local drag strip.
My dad finally agreed to go, if he could use the neighbor's cheater slicks.
It turned out that the neighbor couldn't get his 427 Caprice under 14.5, even with slicks.
My old man did a few runs with bald street tires, until he could borrow the slicks from the neighbor. Since it just fried the tires in 1st gear, he did a couple of runs starting in 2nd gear... and turned a 14.3... with bald street tires, starting in 2nd(!). He never did find out what it would have done with slicks, since when he got back to the pits the neighbor was packing up, and when my dad asked about borrowing his slicks, he just grumbled something, and split...
He sold the new 427 Caprice right after that, and bought a brand new Ford Talladega... which from what I've read, wasn't all that in a 1/4 either... guess the guy's brain wasn't much bigger than his little "unit". Talk about ego issues...


I guess my ego will have to settle for whatever is reasonable.
Either way, it should be a definite step up from the 283...

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Old 08-06-2015, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
I would go with a roller cam; because I don't like the risk vs reward of the flat tappet stuff.
If you do go hft, make sure you follow proper break in procedures to the letter.

The key to the L79 cam is adequate compression. At least 9.5:1; and lets try to keep the quench distance between .035" and .045"
Doing both of these will keep your 327 from being a gas hog (if you can keep your right foot sane).

If you use an Edelbrock carb; for the vintage look, peel the edelbrock sticker off if its visible under your aircleaner.

Intake should be a Edelbrock C3B, C3BX or C4B or maybe a Holley 300-36 for the vintage "Day 2 look" (the 300-36 would be more 1969 and later if you're theme crazy. There was a dyno test in Hot Rod Deluxe or something that did some dyno testing of vintage manifolds on a pretty stout 283. The C3B/C4B did about as good as a regular Edelbrock Performer, so in a street car you wouldn't be held back.

Distributor would probably be best to use a Pertronix-type drop in module and a matching coil. Option 2 for me would be a Delta 10B box, and use Echlin points in the distributor. Boy will this thing throw an arc :-D

You didn't mention exhaust; Im assuming you're using 2.5" rams horns or basic 1-5/8" headers? Me? Id use the rams horns. Buy em new from Dorman, grind off the brackets and casting lugs. No leaks, no heat and looks the part.

Fun project!!


Thanks for the tips AG.
Yeah, I don't think my "nostalgia" is going to be that detailed...
It's just that the heads seem to be the thing that says "period" or "aftermarket", so I kinda liked the idea of camel humps, and of course the proper brackets and pulleys for the basic "period correct" look.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
FWIW,the Comp Nostalgia L79 cam will perform much better than that repro L79 cam & get better milage.It has the sound of the L79,but,modern timing & lobe profile & offers better power under the curve than the outdated L79 cam.Both cams will,however,need a higher than stock convertor to run well.IIRC,none of the L79 equipped cars were offered with auto trans from GM.


Hey Joker, thanks for the input.
Yeah, I'm seriously considering the L79H for those reasons.
Since the 327 seems to have all new components (including lifters), I don't think I'm going to spend the bucks on roller, unless I really end up doing alot of racing.
As for the converter, I might just try the one suggested earlier, unless I find that the one that came with my 4L60 already has a 2000 stall.
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
You didn't mention exhaust; Im assuming you're using 2.5" rams horns or basic 1-5/8" headers? Me? Id use the rams horns. Buy em new from Dorman, grind off the brackets and casting lugs. No leaks, no heat and looks the part.
Fun project!!
Hey AG, yeah I'll have to also get my head into the "quench" and "squish" and things that I've seen as I've read past posts...
While I have the motor apart, I figured balancing, and I assume that quench and squish and what-not are the things involved with blueprinting, would be worthwhile.
Any other tips that you or anyone else can give me, that will help keep the motor as efficient as possible, would be greatly appreciated!


Oh yeah, I don't think I can use rams horns on a Chevelle (let me know if I'm wrong)... so I'll have to find some headers that will work with the angle plugs.
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:49 PM
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The Comp Cams reproductions of the GM high performance daily driver camshafts have cam lobes that are more radical (steep) than the GM cam lobes. The GM cam lobes are lazy in comparison. The Comp Cams version of the GM L79 cam therefore requires higher valve spring pressure in order to prevent lofting of the lifters on the return flank of the cam lobes. Lofting the lifters is a major cause of valve float at high RPM unless higher valve spring pressure is used. High spring pressure can lead to wiped out cam lobes for a daily driver.

GM camshafts are ground to last in the daily driver new car warranty period whereas Comp Cams camshafts are optimized for competition. Comp Cams and other high performance cam grinders could care less if their camshafts fail during the new car warranty period.
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
The stall rating of the convertor has nothing to do with strength or weakness.The higher stall allows the engine to operate within it's rated RPM range without stalling or over riding.It's a performance issue vs strength.


Yeah Joker, I meant that since the converter that jp linked to is a cheap one, and "might" fail, as opposed to a $400 heavier duty one, it would be better if a cheap converter failed than if the transmission failed...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2015, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
The Comp Cams reproductions of the GM high performance daily driver camshafts have cam lobes that are more radical (steep) than the GM cam lobes. The GM cam lobes are lazy in comparison. The Comp Cams version of the GM L79 cam therefore requires higher valve spring pressure in order to prevent lofting of the lifters on the return flank of the cam lobes. Lofting the lifters is a major cause of valve float at high RPM unless higher valve spring pressure is used. High spring pressure can lead to wiped out cam lobes for a daily driver.

GM camshafts are ground to last in the daily driver new car warranty period whereas Comp Cams camshafts are optimized for competition. Comp Cams and other high performance cam grinders could care less if their camshafts fail during the new car warranty period.

Thanks MF,
Is the Street Pros cam that you recommended any different than the Comp Cams in that respect?

The 492s on this 327 have dual springs, so I think floating shouldn't be an issue. My Malibu definitely isn't a daily driver, but might be used more for cruising than racing... of course, with a drag strip right down the road, it might see more racing than cruising...
However, without modifying the rest of the drive train my "racing" might be more like "1/4-mile cruising", but it's all good!

If I'm planning on a long cruise, like the Arizona Route 66 cruise, I might throw the 283 back in it.

Last edited by SoulSurfSD; 08-06-2015 at 04:15 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2015, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
The Comp Cams reproductions of the GM high performance daily driver camshafts have cam lobes that are more radical (steep) than the GM cam lobes. The GM cam lobes are lazy in comparison. The Comp Cams version of the GM L79 cam therefore requires higher valve spring pressure in order to prevent lofting of the lifters on the return flank of the cam lobes. Lofting the lifters is a major cause of valve float at high RPM unless higher valve spring pressure is used. High spring pressure can lead to wiped out cam lobes for a daily driver.

GM camshafts are ground to last in the daily driver new car warranty period whereas Comp Cams camshafts are optimized for competition. Comp Cams and other high performance cam grinders could care less if their camshafts fail during the new car warranty period.
Tho the Nostalgia cam does have more aggressive lobes compared to the GM cam, it is not as aggressive as the Extreme series cams.Comp recommends the 26981-16 behives with 110 psi seat/292 psi open for both, the Nostalgia L79 & for their standard L79 repro that has the same specs as the GM cam.With proper break in & oil use, it will be fine & give alot better performance over that outdated GM cam.I wouldn't say the Nostalgia cam is a "competition only" cam.It's just an improved replacement over the original, offering the same sound, with much better performance & efficiency.
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Old 08-06-2015, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulSurfSD View Post
Thanks MF,
Is the Street Pros cam that you recommended any different than the Comp Cams in that respect?

The 492s on this 327 have dual springs, so I think floating shouldn't be an issue. My Malibu definitely isn't a daily driver, but might be used more for cruising than racing... of course, with a drag strip right down the road, it might see more racing than cruising...
However, without modifying the rest of the drive train my "racing" might be more like "1/4-mile cruising", but it's all good!

If I'm planning on a long cruise, like the Arizona Route 66 cruise, I might throw the 283 back in it.

The Speed Pro CS179R camshaft is an exact duplicate of the GM L79 camshaft. On the other hand, the cam lobe profile of the Comp Cams 12-106-3 is supposed to be a optimized version of the GM L79 camshaft. The CC version of the L79 camshaft has faster ramps. The previous owner of my 1962 Chevrolet Bel Air used Speed Pro camshaft, lifters and valve springs when the engine was rebuilt in 1990.

The Comp Cams 12-106-3 duplicate of the L79 camshaft was not available in 1990. That was because the GM-3863151 camshaft used in the L79 engine option was still available from the dealerships. The GM-3863151 camshaft was discontinued by GM about 1998. After that, the aftermarket duplicates began to appear.

Your heads do not have dual springs unless the original springs have been replaced with larger dual valve springs. That would require machine work to enlarge the spring pockets and to reduce the valve guide diameter. The "dual" springs you see are actually single valve springs that contain a flat damper spring. The flat damper has negligible effect on the valve spring pressure. The damper is used only to reduce spring harmonic vibration at high RPM. The Speed Pro Z28 replacements are single spring with a flat damper. The Comp Cams 981 valve springs that are recommended with their 12-106-3 camshaft are the same design as the Speed Pro valve springs and will also fit the stock valve spring seats without any machine work.
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Old 08-06-2015, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
The "dual" springs you see are actually single valve springs that contain a flat damper spring.


Ah, thanks for clarifying that! I just assumed that was "dual"...
So I assume they'll be fine, as long as I'm not using too aggressive a cam...


What are your thoughts on the "beehive" springs for a future upgrade (if needed)?
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Old 08-06-2015, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
Tho the Nostalgia cam does have more aggressive lobes compared to the GM cam, it is not as aggressive as the Extreme series cams.Comp recommends the 26981-16 behives with 110 psi seat/292 psi open for both, the Nostalgia L79 & for their standard L79 repro that has the same specs as the GM cam.With proper break in & oil use, it will be fine & give alot better performance over that outdated GM cam.I wouldn't say the Nostalgia cam is a "competition only" cam.It's just an improved replacement over the original, offering the same sound, with much better performance & efficiency.


Thanks Joker, I think I'll end up going with the Nostalgia+ L79, and probably upgrade to the beehive springs later on, if I go to the drag strip enough...
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Old 08-06-2015, 07:36 PM
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The real Z-28 valve springs have been discontinued by GM. The Z-28 valve springs were variously listed for the LT-1 and for off-road use under part number 3427142. The original Z-28 valve springs are still listed today but are merely regular production valve springs and are still available under the old Z-28 part number 3911068. A 1991 Chevrolet Blazer 4.3 L v6 was equipped with the 3911068 valve springs.
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Old 08-06-2015, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulSurfSD View Post
Thanks Vinnie... I'll have to decide whether I'm mainly going to be "cruising", with things being more about novelty, or whether I'm really going to be racing (street legal bracket racing). Now that they've re-opened the AAA Dragway (which I can see from my backyard), going with modern heads is something to think about...


I might run the 492s for now (have to find some headers that will work of course), and if I really start racing it, I can always sell them and the 291s, and get some modern heads to get me closer to that 14 second goal...
I would be very disappointed if my car ran 14s,,, Back when I had my 67 SS Camaro I dipped into the high 11s using the GM service angle plug heads.

I was thinking if you wanted cast iron and did not mind a Vortec intake? Then buy a "new" set of modified vortec heads from someone like Scoggin Dickey,already mentioned hydraulic roller cam or if flat tappet then a pressure oiled solid lifter cam. (I would recommend an Isky Z-25 (or Z-27 for a hot engine) 750 double pumper on a rpm vortec intake.This combo should go high 12s with a decent idle. You biggest problem will be keeping V-belts on the beast. This combo would pull from 4,000-6400 like a scalded ape!!! Should easily net over 380 hp. This engine with a little gear and o/drive transmission will make you smile all day,,,
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Old 08-07-2015, 06:56 AM
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a little gear and o/drive transmission will make you smile all day,,,




I agree with vinn on the gear and O/D tranny.
I had the stock 3.42 gear in the truck after I put in that lil cheapo stall in the 700r4. I thought it done a great job. then I put the 4.56 gear behind the stall, and stock 305 tbi, I havnt stopped smiling since.


I got the motor and rearend out of the 89' and installed them in a 94' now, but its got a 5 speed tranny (nv3500), the 4.56 gear is even more fun behind that 5 spd. my cruise rpm is only 1800-2400 in O/D. it works for me in my low speed zone (30-55 mph), small town.


I'm not saying you need a 4.56!!!!! but, O/D tranny's will take more gear.
your 235 60 15 tires will measure 25-26" tall. at 3000 rpm at 80 mph, with a 1:1 (th350 in 3rd) tranny gear, then you should have a 2.73-3.08 rear gear. these are terrible gears for any O/D tranny. you will need no less then a 4.10 gear to get to the FUN level with the O/D tranny. do your homework, that 327 likes to rev. around here, I would set it up to turn 2000 rpm at 45 mph in O/D, converter locked. BUT, that is for MY situation, NOT everybodys.
the acceleration with the 4.56 gear is what puts a smile on my face, not the puny 165hp, 250 ft/lbs tq stock 305 under the hood.
heres a calculator for you to play with. tire height, tranny gears, rear gears, rpm, mph. have fun!!!!!
Ring And Pinion Gears, Axles and Axle Shafts, Drivetrain Parts and Tools, Transmission Parts, and Transfer Case Parts - Accu Auto Parts

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Old 08-07-2015, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
I would be very disappointed if my car ran 14s,,, Back when I had my 67 SS Camaro I dipped into the high 11s using the GM service angle plug heads.

I was thinking if you wanted cast iron and did not mind a Vortec intake? Then buy a "new" set of modified vortec heads from someone like Scoggin Dickey,already mentioned hydraulic roller cam or if flat tappet then a pressure oiled solid lifter cam. (I would recommend an Isky Z-25 (or Z-27 for a hot engine) 750 double pumper on a rpm vortec intake.This combo should go high 12s with a decent idle. You biggest problem will be keeping V-belts on the beast. This combo would pull from 4,000-6400 like a scalded ape!!! Should easily net over 380 hp. This engine with a little gear and o/drive transmission will make you smile all day,,,

Thanks Vinnie, I'll keep all of this in mind for "Phase 2"...
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