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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2016, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg T View Post
This is the reason I tore the thing down in the first place. Look at the leaks in these gaskets.
What is the head gasket bore? How were the head and deck surfaces? Or did you resurface either?

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2016, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 64nailhead View Post
What is the head gasket bore? How were the head and deck surfaces? Or did you resurface either?
I didn't measure the ones I took off. I installed 4.166" permatorque .039" gaskets. I had both the heads and intake resurfaced before reinstallation. They took .005" off the intake and .004 off the heads and gave it nice fine surfaced for the FelPros.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2016, 01:01 PM
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Noisy

Developed a clacking noise around 2k to 3k rpm. Loud! At idle you seem to hear a bit of valve train noise, which I took to me normal since I'm at .600 lift, AND my old zz4 used to have noisy rollers also. Using a stethoscope and touching the stud girdles you can clearly hear a loud clacking on both sides, and whn inside the truck while driving it comes on loudly at about 2200 to 3k rpm. Already pulled the girdles and checked the preload, going an extra 1/4 turn this time. Was quiet for about 10 minutes then noise came back.

Now, these are Edelbrock lifters that were used on previous cams, but only have about 6k miles on them. Is it possible that the previous owner didn't set the endplay properly on the other cams and caused some wear/damage on these lifters? Is it possible these lifters are not made for small base circle cams? Would that even matter? I'm at a loss here..
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:59 PM
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Just battled with this. Is the noise cyclical? Like a lifter? Or do you think it's all or a bunch of them?

I ended up needing one. I never found out if it was a dud or if I got a piece of trash in it. But I did the same that you're saying you're going to do - readjust the valves. Of course I set mine originally with 3/8 of a turn of preload and after making a phone call I found out that I needed more than double that - lol. So I adjusted mne twice before I swapped out the dud. I will say that after they were adjusted correctly it was very easy to pickout the bad one by removing the valve cover with it hot and checking preload. What did you set them for preload?

Perhaps a quick call to Edlebrock tomorrow should be in order?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2016, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64nailhead View Post
Just battled with this. Is the noise cyclical? Like a lifter? Or do you think it's all or a bunch of them?

I ended up needing one. I never found out if it was a dud or if I got a piece of trash in it. But I did the same that you're saying you're going to do - readjust the valves. Of course I set mine originally with 3/8 of a turn of preload and after making a phone call I found out that I needed more than double that - lol. So I adjusted mne twice before I swapped out the dud. I will say that after they were adjusted correctly it was very easy to pickout the bad one by removing the valve cover with it hot and checking preload. What did you set them for preload?

Perhaps a quick call to Edlebrock tomorrow should be in order?
At assembly i put them at 1/2 turn. Ran fine for a couple timez out but i noticed a little noise becoming louder. Then the other day i went out and noticed during warm up that some louder clacking had set in, but after driving a bit seemed to become quieter. Except, during excelleration between 2k and 3 k it sounded like somdone in there with a few hammers. Has to be two or three of them but i cant find them. By the time i get the cover off theyre all bled down and there are a couple barely open. The second time apart i put them at 3/4 and it wss quit for about 10 minutez and then became worse as i drove. Im looking at a set of Howards now. My son used those and they are silent......IF this is a lifter issue. Also, I cannot afford another $660.00 for Edelbrock lifters.

To answer your question, it's more than one because the noise is from both sides. AND, at 2k to 3k it sounds like things are flapping all over the place. Yet, she'll wind up to 7k and pull like a freight train.

Last edited by Greg T; 05-01-2016 at 07:46 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2016, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg T View Post
By the time i get the cover off theyre all bled down and there are a couple barely open.
If by 'bled down' you mean you can collapse the lifter by pushing on it, then that is not right. That should not be happenning, unless there is something much different with those lifters.

Someone correct me of I'm wrong.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2016, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64nailhead View Post
If by 'bled down' you mean you can collapse the lifter by pushing on it, then that is not right. That should not be happenning, unless there is something much different with those lifters.

Someone correct me of I'm wrong.
What i mean is all the valves are closed. Usually there would be a few either open or partially open. If the truck sits overnight i'll pull the covers off and nearly all the valves are closed. That tells me that spring pressure is collapsing all thd lifters. Right?
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:17 PM
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When you've removed the valve covers when it's hot (right after shutting off) can you compress any of the lifters by hand by pushing down on the push rod side of the rockers? I can't speak for once the engine has cooled off, but the lifters should maintain hydraulic pressure for some time after being shutoff. If you think about it, if they didn't then everytime you started it cold it would clatter until the lifters pumped up. Is it clattering when you start it for 1-3 seconds? If yes, then you have lifter issues for sure IMO.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2016, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64nailhead View Post
When you've removed the valve covers when it's hot (right after shutting off) can you compress any of the lifters by hand by pushing down on the push rod side of the rockers? I can't speak for once the engine has cooled off, but the lifters should maintain hydraulic pressure for some time after being shutoff. If you think about it, if they didn't then everytime you started it cold it would clatter until the lifters pumped up. Is it clattering when you start it for 1-3 seconds? If yes, then you have lifter issues for sure IMO.
Yes, i get a little extra noise when it is cold, but most of it is gone immediately. Except, some of it takes about a half hour of running to quiet down a couple of them but never goes away. Even after being hot a little of the noise is still there at idle, but comes on like gangbusters at 2k to 3k. I'm just thinking the extra lift had something to do with it since there's been 6k miles on .539 lift and now it has .600. IDK, I'm just grasping here. The damn thing was quiet until I put the cam in and flattened the heads and intake.

Last edited by Greg T; 05-01-2016 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg T View Post
Yes, i get a little extra noise when it is cold, but most of it is gone immediately. Except, some of it takes about a half hour of running to quiet down a couple of them but never goes away. Even after being hot a little of the noise is still there at idle, but comes on like gangbusters at 2k to 3k. I'm just thinking the extra lift had something to do with it since there's been 6k miles on .539 lift and now it has .600. IDK, I'm just grasping here. The damn thing was quiet until I put the cam in and flattened the heads and intake.
Assuming your pushrod length/valve train geometry/clearance are correct, then I'd readjust the valves to whatever Eddelbrock says for proper preload. But it sounds like you either have some bad lifters or valve train clearance issues, i.e. coil bind, push rod interference, etc.. Like I mentioned previosly, I discovered proper preload on the Morels we have after I started chasing downa tick. And Morel was .050" which is a full turn with a 7/16 stud!

Just thinking though, a minorly loose lifter tick should become less or go away when the rpm's are picked up. You're mentioning it's getting worse as the rpm's come up. My best guess is you have a bad lifter(s). See what Edelbrock says about the whole situation.

Is there any chance you have some debris travelling through the motor? Hopefully not.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2016, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64nailhead View Post
Assuming your pushrod length/valve train geometry/clearance are correct, then I'd readjust the valves to whatever Eddelbrock says for proper preload. But it sounds like you either have some bad lifters or valve train clearance issues, i.e. coil bind, push rod interference, etc.. Like I mentioned previosly, I discovered proper preload on the Morels we have after I started chasing downa tick. And Morel was .050" which is a full turn with a 7/16 stud!

Just thinking though, a minorly loose lifter tick should become less or go away when the rpm's are picked up. You're mentioning it's getting worse as the rpm's come up. My best guess is you have a bad lifter(s). See what Edelbrock says about the whole situation.

Is there any chance you have some debris travelling through the motor? Hopefully not.

I did put them where Ede wanted them. They are are 3/4 turn as suggested. At idle they are just audible. At 2500 they sound like something is coming out of the engine compartment, and then higher than that I can't hear them. But, the exhaust is loud and the carb is sucking. But as I said, when I first fired it up after the reassembly, everything was fine. Sounded great, ran perfect. Drove it home from my son's house (10 miles) and parked in the garage. Two days later fired it up and it was noisy, and getting worse ever since. My contact patch on the valve stem is perfectly centered. Ede tells me my springs are good for .620, even tho the website shows them at .600". The one thing I did not check is the alignment of the guide plates, but they did not remove them to resurface the head. Altho, I'm not certain I have the heads back on the same sides they came from. I will double check the guide plates, but it seems to me they would get worse as things warm up and expand, not quieter. If I wind up ordering some Howards rollers, do you think all rollers are the same height? Or do I need to check push rod length again?
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:10 AM
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Not that this is any help. but I can guarantee you that Edelbrock DID NOT make those lifters....someone else did, I can't tell you who, but it wasn't Edelbrock.
They make no cams or lifters themselves. all they do is contract it out and slap their name on the finished product.

Most of the Howards line is made by Morel, and they are the best company out there right now.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2016, 07:40 AM
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It does sound like they are not working properly. I think its time to call edelbrock and get some tec support just dont tell them you got them used say that you had them a while and not sure why there not working.

If they cant help or dont want to talk without proog of purchase then some new lifters are in order. The eddy lifters are not made to bleed off like roads lifter right? if not they should be just as tight the next day as any other lifter. I have seen hydro lifters hold a valve open for 20 years in and engine that was sitting i can onyl assume you got some type of issue going on there.

But you can buy cheap lifters these days. maybe toss in this set and get the others rebuilt or rebuild them your self as time permits.

Here is a link to some cheap roller lifter 150 bucks a set. If your cam is hydro roller. You can also get solid for the same price.

Hydraulic Roller Lifter for Chevy Chevrolet SBC V8 350 265 400 283 327 302 307 | eBay


I bet if you take them apart you will find the problems. Also a nice little bench project to have fun playing with as the time comes to you.

But if you are planning on going solid roller at some point might be the time to think about buying solid lifters and move forward with a nice big solid roller for this race truck. Looks like your going to end up there anyway might as well just make the leap.

Also make sure your lifters arent short travel lifters or one of the bleed down type. Or some other none conventional type of lifters. Since many of these type require a special install and setup process.

Hope this helps.
I just installed this Comp custom grind two weeks ago. It doesn't have 40 miles on it. Had I known there was going to be a lifter issue when changing to a much higher lift cam I would have gone solid right from the start. The only reason I ordered the hydro cam was because I planned on using the existing lifters. Funny how crap works out, huh? I thought about it last night and some this morning and ended up going to Summit for a set of Howards. During the swap I'll double check the guide plates and such to make sure there are no obstructions anywhere. What are your thoughts on the push rods? Should the Howards lifters be the same height? I would guess all retro hydros would be the same, but not sure.

And, yes, after sitting over night most of the valves are closed. There may be one on each side that are partially open, but for the most part they're pretty even all the way along the head.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2016, 04:30 PM
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Eric & HCompton,
SO you think it's a lifter dilemma as well?

Greg,
I'll be in Indianapolis next week. I'll drive up on Thursday and swap them for you on Friday if you want as long as you let me drive it to verify the repair - lol.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2016, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
oh no im sure that all retro lifters are NOT the same height. but its a good time to get stronger pushrods any way. Also is this cam onue that requires comp cams short travel hydro lifters. They are not cheap but some of there larger hydro cams need them. Might want to call comp and make sure that cam can work with the howards lifters before you install them and cant return them. If they say no go then its going to be there more expensive short travel high rpm lifter. Just dont give them a full turn when installing them. they only move a tiny bit. But can handle 7-8K rpm.

At this point the best thing to do is call the manufacturer and be sure your installing the right parts so you wont be out any more cash other than the cost of return shipping.

Hope this helps.

Interesting thought, but wouldn't you think the tech at comp would have told me that while I was telling him what I needed in a cam? I did have it ground on a small base circle blank, which the tech recommended for a stroker. I guess I'll measure the lifter height of both while they are apart. What a pain!! This was supposed to be a simple freshening, new cam, flatten surfaces and begin dyno pulls. I would GUESS, tho, that if the lifters were not compatible with the cam there would be more than a couple giving me trouble. I hope......

Quote:
Greg,
I'll be in Indianapolis next week. I'll drive up on Thursday and swap them for you on Friday if you want as long as you let me drive it to verify the repair - lol.
That's pretty tempting!!!
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