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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2016, 09:02 AM
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Thanks for all the pointers. I actually bought new clips a while ago as well as metal screws that have some supposed weather tight adhesive. I'm not sure which ones are for the rear and the front glass. I believe the smaller ones are the rear and the bigger ones are the front. I placed the trim around the window and there is a severe misalignment on the RH quarter and roof seam. There was previously bondo on the roof and around that quarter in the channel. There isn't a way to move that quarter in any more to close the gap. I think the roof is wrong and is causing the misalignment, but I could be wrong. I moved the trunk lid up and it closed the gap as well as lined up with the tails. I still have the problem of the awesome previous panel fitting. I zipped up the package tray with the filler panel and it's perfectly level. I will just have to fix the part where it attaches to the rest, as the package tray is higher than the previous repair. What type of gap should there be where the quarter meets the rocker?













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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2016, 09:04 AM
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Here's the other clip

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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2016, 12:26 PM
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I think you're right about the clips.

I want to know if the tail panel is centered.

The curve around the window on the right quarter panel does look wrong but does it match the other quarter at the top?

The Rocker Gap just depends on how the metal is bent there.
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Old 09-21-2016, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
I think you're right about the clips.

I want to know if the tail panel is centered.

The curve around the window on the right quarter panel does look wrong but does it match the other quarter at the top?

The Rocker Gap just depends on how the metal is bent there.
The tail panel is centered with the trunk. It's just aligned poorly. It was replaced at the same time I'm guessing. I filled in the holes because I didn't want the trim.

I verified the quarters have the same curvature. I used this plastic tool that replicates whatever it is pressed against, and it is the same on both. Which leads me to believe the roof is wrong.

As far as the gap, should I bend it more to achieve less gap? Also, how is the filler panel attached to the quarters? Is it supposed to be spot welded on the visible seam that aligns with the trunk lid?
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98camarod View Post
The tail panel is centered with the trunk. It's just aligned poorly. It was replaced at the same time I'm guessing. I filled in the holes because I didn't want the trim.

I verified the quarters have the same curvature. I used this plastic tool that replicates whatever it is pressed against, and it is the same on both. Which leads me to believe the roof is wrong.

As far as the gap, should I bend it more to achieve less gap? Also, how is the filler panel attached to the quarters? Is it supposed to be spot welded on the visible seam that aligns with the trunk lid?

Well, if you're replacing the roof also I reckon you'l find out about the tops of the quarters when the old roof is off and you can try the new one out. That sure is a big difference in the width of the flat between body lines around the window. If the roof is not a replacement, I'd assume the quarters to be the issue. Its good that they match according to a contour gauge but that could just mean they are equally wrong in relation to the car.

On the rocker gap, yes its probably just not stamped as sharply as the original. If it will lay flat on the rocker, I would not be too concerned about the radius there. That is within range of bodyfiller, to crispen the edge there to visually match the rocker. You can anticipate some mud work right there anyway because the plug welds are so close to the panel's face. But all that is down low so the expectations are also lower.

The filler connects to the quarters via the downward flanges at the ends which meet downward flanges on the quarters. Gotta stand on your head inside the trunk to weld that one. I could not find a way to see that while I welded it on the Camaro. Its partially hidden by the trunk hinge support.

The rear edge of the filler is plug welded to the tray in the weatherstrip gutter. You can see where a couple of the filler to quarter welds got crazy. Thats the tricky spot. Here is a shotgun approach to pics from the camaro that may help.









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Old 09-21-2016, 08:06 PM
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^That's quite helpful. I thought that is the way it needed to be, I just wasn't sure. So I need quite a bit more plug welds than I thought. I'm going to take out the filler panel and package tray and make those connector pieces. Then I'll mock it back up and get to welding. I like the way they are fitting now and would rather not take them off and get them to try and fit the way they are now. Is there a problem with just drilling through the top metal and plug welding it? I do have a pneumatic punch and it's more work to do it this way, but I think I'd feel better leaving it on. As far as the roof goes, it was replaced ****tily as well. There's brazing all the way down each drip rail and across the front. I found out this used to be a vinyl top car, so that's why all the rust up on the top or at least it didn't help.
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:29 PM
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Ah, I see. Roof also crappily replaced Now I remember.

Well, as I said, the new roof can be your guide on that. Better try it on because it may change things more than anticipated.

Don't fear taking something apart and going back together a hundred times, but DO sweat welding before absolutely ready. Screws are as good as welds until then, and you can make spray paint dots over screw heads and panel edges to make sure it goes back the same.

I have some flat-nosed spotweld cutting bits that I use for making the holes with panels together. A regular bit can also be used but the drill-to-not-through is trickier thats all. Theres more potential for trapping rust prone debris in the seam that way but its a valid method.

I strongly suggest having roof and everything worked out in mock up screws before zapping any of it. Glad the pics were a help, I know how it is to get a little lost with so much rust and previous repair. Just keep using your head and planning ahead.
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Old 09-22-2016, 05:38 PM
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I'll order my roof and drip rails when I get ahold of a summit discount code and fit it on as well. Thanks for the advice! I may need a pillar patches as well, we'll see! Ill throw more screws in it and get to removing the awesome roof. Is it basically welded to the drip rail?
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2016, 06:46 PM
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Yes, it has tiny resistance welds in the channel originally. But if you are buying the drip rails also, you can just chop those away to simplify roof skin removal. One of the Camaro pics probably shows how the rail flange is just spot welded to the part behind it, way up above the rail itself. I believe GM intended the rails to be replaced with the roof because of how simple that would make it. The front corners of the roof are welded but it's buried in lead like the rear was originally. Who knows what you'll unearth, lol. It's a pleasure to assist you, you're capable and digest info well. Keep on truckin!
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:55 PM
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Wanted to add another tidbit...

After studying quite a few cars, I noticed that the OEs always seem to skip a weld a ways in from each side on glass beds. I'm all about replicating stock number and location of welds. You had mentioned needing more welds to look like mine and I thought I'd mention this because I believe it may be for better glass retention in a crash, allowing only a portion of the seal to pop in a hard side hit. You make of that what you will, but I always try to honor OE weld locations and number. That's why I never let scraps get away until the car is gone! In your case, you're mostly hosed on that already but I probably have examples I can show ya if you wonder about that.
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:43 PM
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Here are some pics to rattle your cage and maybe remove mystery / give idea. 68 El Camino.
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:52 PM
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These are from the Camaro and if yours is set up the same way... see how easy it is if you're installing new drip rails? I didn't but you can.









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Old 09-23-2016, 05:47 PM
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Awesome, thanks for the pictures! On the El Camino, is that where the lead seam was and you just patched it? The way the Camaro is, looks like the drip rails are attached under the roof skin. I looked at mine, which isn't the best reference, but it looks like it goes along the outside. I suppose it doesn't matter either way, it's going to come off.
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:26 PM
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I was looking trying to see the drip rail area in one of your pics, where the quarter is cut away. It does appear to be not like the Camaro. Pics of that new part show a horizontal flange that would attach to the inner structure where the weatherstrip channel does. As far as I can tell. More of a pain to separate since its upside-down drilling or grinding, but probably still OK to chop off rail and roof edge in one cut. Cool. Couple of my yesterday pics are also on page 1 too, LOL. Pardon.

On the front seam, yes thats where it was leaded and I just patched over it with lead removed. Done that on more than one car, works fine. Even done it at the rear once when using an OE-style roof with the stepped flange. All steel kinda melts those cracking concerns away.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:23 AM
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Ok cool.

So I was looking at purchasing the tail panel. That piece includes the portion that the quarter attaches around the tail light. So, what should I do here? I'm thinking to disconnect the braces in the trunk and hopefully move it in place. It's off on the drivers side and money on the passenger side.
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