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Old 09-11-2019, 08:05 PM
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700r4 Troubles

So I rebuilt the 700 in my 92 camaro v6 3.1 last year in september. Haven't had a problem till today. Few days ago my manual toggle switch for my rad fan went out so I said hey I'll fix it later. I usually turn my fan on around 200 and it runs realll cool all the time. But I haven't been driving it lately as I have my other camaro, so it sits for days at a time sometimes . So today I took it to work in the morning maybe a 30 min drive mostly traffic and some street driving. Has always shifted great no problems at all. So on my way back from work I was kinda getting on it a bit and manually shifting it. Mind you that I let the temps get up to were the ecm turns the fan on which is around 240. So stopped at red light everything was normal and I take off, so when I expect my shift to second it just revved up like neutral and I let off and coasted, so I said maybe Im tripping and gave it some gas but no just revved up. Pulled over, went to check my oil, was expecting to see/smell burnt oil but it looked way overfilled and my fluid was clean and smelled great. Turned it off let it chill. Was thinking maybe heat related. Didn't wanna jump to conclusions. So I turned it back on few mins later and took off very slowly and cotiously, I got all my shifts. they all engaged, sometime very soft and sometimes clunky but they all worked. didnt really wanna floor it and risk more slipping. Got it home in limp mode. all my gears were working but very weird hard clunking. So know I'm thinking what might be causing this. I don't think I burned my clutches or my band as they still engage. First thought was maybe my oil filter came off maybe? I heard some one mention on another thread that if you have an aftermarket pan it might not have the support to hold up the fillter. Any thoughts? I checked to see if I had reverse also and it does work. Any thoughts? gonna let it cool off.

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Old 09-11-2019, 09:42 PM
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Sounds like the one way sprag clutch died, it gets a pretty good workout when the trans is manually shifted.


Bogie
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:17 AM
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The sprag in the input drum is what died the first time I rebuilt it, that and clutches but basically needed full rebuild. But I don't see why my fluid level doesn't drop? Ive always had a normal reading. Torque converter drainback problem? And my pump seems like it's not providing enough pressure. So I take it that it's better NOT to manually shift the 700?

Last edited by boneste624; 09-12-2019 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:54 AM
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Manually shifting anybody's automatic is hard on them, this is really runnng the trans on the upper structural design limit. I do it few and far between on the street as it is brutal on the transmission. The shift methodology uses different component relationships from the automatic shift that while is very effective it is also quite part distructive.

If you want to shift manually I suggest a manual gear box, nobody's automatic including 'built' automatics likes this mode of operation except maybe the old original 4 speed Hydromatic and the old 2 speed Power Glides.

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Old 09-14-2019, 09:41 AM
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Manually shifting the automatic is not hard on them. Simply do not down shift at higher speeds... slow the vehicle down before dropping into a lower gear manually

Since we are talking GM transmission here:

GM engineered additional holding in them when in manual lower gears.

In manual 1 the low-reverse frictions are applied, the line pressure is raised regardless of where the TV cable is. The 2 over-run frictions will be applied... in a 700R4 trans, these 2 over-run frictions take the place of the coasting band in a T-400 or T-350 transmission. These 2 Over-run frictions are not very large in diameter.

In manual 2nd gear, the 2nd gear band is on , the Over-run frictions are applied. If the shifter is in OD, in 2nd gear the Over-run frictions are Not applied.

In manual 3rd gear, the 2 Over-run frictions are still applied. Shifter in OD position in 3rd gear, the Over-run frictions are not applied.

In 4th gear the 2 Over-run frictions are released.. if they were to stay appplied, they would burn up.

If you are running at higher speeds with the 700r4 ... then shift down to slow the vehicle instead of use the brakes... this will burn the 2 Over-run frictions.
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Old 09-15-2019, 11:22 AM
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If you're going to manually shift you slush box here's a basic list of what you need to stuff it with to keep it together.

https://www.sonnax.com/units/452-4l60

As I said these are not made for this treatement with factory parts. You've been in it already and are going in again, like the old song goes; "do the math"!

At least get the heavy duty roller clutches. They double up on the roller cage over how the factory does the retainer rings which does a lot to keep the rollers in place.

Been there done that a lot more than once.



Bogie
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogiesAnnex1 View Post
If you're going to manually shift you slush box here's a basic list of what you need to stuff it with to keep it together.

https://www.sonnax.com/units/452-4l60

As I said these are not made for this treatement with factory parts. You've been in it already and are going in again, like the old song goes; "do the math"!

At least get the heavy duty roller clutches. They double up on the roller cage over how the factory does the retainer rings which does a lot to keep the rollers in place.

Been there done that a lot more than once.



Bogie
You have simply provided a link to a full page of Sonnax products... The HD over run sprag clutch hub piece is a good upgrade... common for the sprag clutch hub center to break out.

There is no doubled up roller cages on the roller clutches for the 700 transmissions. The design has remained the same for years.

There is a double retainer design on the 29 element sprag used in the forward hub of the 700 4L60 series of transmissions. Perhaps this what you are thinking of? Try to purchase only the Borg Warner brand sprag 29 element... there are copies of this on the market.

The OEM GM sprag is a single ring guide design. A high failure rate on those with some miles on them. As they fail , the sprag will slip , then grab... slip more, then grab

The first gen of the 700r4 in 1982 model year of vehicles had a plastic cage design sprag in the forward hub and race. These were near 100% failure rate.

In the early 1980's we had GM vehicles towed in with 18 to 22k miles on them with a broken 700r4 transmission. GM was covering about 50% of the repair costs on many units .
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:32 PM
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Well I let it cool off for a whole day and took it for a test drive. Seems like I just overheated it slightly as It functions and goes threw the gears the same when cold. When warms up seems like it shifts a little later than usual. Maybe I need to set the TV cable again. Maybe something got outtawack due to the overheating. Fluid smells and looks great. What do you guys think. Yeah I like the HD sprag piece. Pricey. I'm also getting a normal reading now on the dipstick.
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