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Old 03-15-2014, 05:30 PM
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about to give up on my pearl paint job

im having some issues and didnt even paint the engine bay today

anyways i started with 8 grams of pearl on the black base but it wasnt enough

eventually i got upto 35 grams of pearl per sprayable quart of paint
we were testing on my junk iroc hood which honestly wasnt preped very well so it will look like tons of orange peel but we just wanted to get a feel for how much pearl to add

anyways heres some pics

the hood right before we sprayed it



black base with 35 grams of pearl per quart and one coat of clear ( indoors in the shade)
it shows up jet black just like it should



then we took the hood outside , and it shows up the blue pearl and metalic in it
looks ok from this angle ( not enough pearl yet trying to get a deeper blue when in the sun)


then we switch angles and u can see striping everywere


then from this side it looks even again



anyways i ran out of paint trying to get it right and had a bunch of clear left so i threw some pearl in just the clear and sprayed it over the black primer i love the color but it doesnt give me the color changing effect i want

it looks like its got stripes and squares in it but thats because i sprayed 4 different mixtures of clear and pearl in the same area

upclose so u can see the color


and far away so u can see the different mixtures


this was the first area i did with the pearl in the clear and then went over it with some small metal flake in the clear , like the effect but the metal flake color was to dark compared to the pearl



anyways i have a much more experianced friend comming by so we can see if he can spray without getting any striping , if he can were going to paint the car with the pearl in the black base like the first few pics except go from 35 grams a quart to 50 to bring out the blue more


if we cant get that to spray without striping i will spray the whole car black then mix the pearl in the clear and spray the car the color that u see in the last 3 or so pics since we know we can get that to come out even


maybe somone here can help me figure out why we are getting the stripes in the black base blue pearl mix

we have tried different overlaps, different air presures , moving faster or slower etc and they just wont go away

it almost seems like the stripes are comming in on the very edge of the spray pattern on both the top and bottom of the spray

the gun has a 1.5 tip in it


and please dont hound me about the organge peel and bad prep i know about it, the hood was a junk hood and was only preped enough to test painting on before i tried to spray the actual car

i can promise u the car will be preped 1000x better

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Old 03-15-2014, 06:13 PM
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wow, that hood is a disaster. And that orange peel is a disaster too. Orange peel has nothing to do with the prep, and is completely dependent on the gun settings and spray technique. So is the striping. What you're doing right now is saying 'well I have these problems on the hood but the car will be a lot better.'

I'm here to tell you, your car will be 1000x worse because now you're doing an entire car. You're setting yourself up for catastrophic disaster here, especially with not being able to dial in your gun and technique better than it is. I'd abandon the pearl notion entirely, it's only used for Cadillacs with 24" rims anyways, and spray a solid color, not even with any metallics.

However, to fix those stripes, spray a fresh coat of base. IMMEDIATELY after, while the base is still WET, drop the pressure on the gun 5 pounds, and pull the gun back so it's 12-15" away from the panel and spray a really fast drop coat over the entire panel, going in a direction perpendicular to the stripes. If you still see them, switch directions and spray another drop coat. This will get rid of stripes, but you have to be putting it down on FRESH WET base so it melts in, otherwise you'll have delamination issues with the clear.
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:42 PM
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the hoods is rough as can be its not flat and smooth at all most of the peel look u see is actually from whats under the paint
i only sprayed the hood to make sure we wouldnt get stripes , it also dont help that im doing this in the barn , so alot of dirt got in it, when we goto do the car it will actually be in the booth

ill give what u mention a shot, my question though is doing it this way id imagine id only have time to do one panel at a time correct
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:48 PM
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To an un experianced painter from an old squirt (45+ years pullin the trigger).
Learn gun control B4 you start doin pearl paint.
Go to paint supplier and ask to look @ color deck cards, find a premixed black pearl and
have it mixed and shoot it.
Then clear coat.
Yer wasting materials and time.
Did I say learn gun control first?
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project89 View Post
the hoods is rough as can be its not flat and smooth at all most of the peel look u see is actually from whats under the paint
i only sprayed the hood to make sure we wouldnt get stripes , it also dont help that im doing this in the barn , so alot of dirt got in it, when we goto do the car it will actually be in the booth

ill give what u mention a shot, my question though is doing it this way id imagine id only have time to do one panel at a time correct
Doing it 1 panel @ a time ???????????
It'll never match !!!!!
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Project89 View Post
the hoods is rough as can be its not flat and smooth at all most of the peel look u see is actually from whats under the paint
i only sprayed the hood to make sure we wouldnt get stripes , it also dont help that im doing this in the barn , so alot of dirt got in it, when we goto do the car it will actually be in the booth

ill give what u mention a shot, my question though is doing it this way id imagine id only have time to do one panel at a time correct
if you can't do the entire car at once then you have no business doing a metallic or pearl. Your panels won't match, especially with your gun issues. I would drop all this and go to a solid color.
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:58 PM
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if you can't do the entire car at once then you have no business doing a metallic or pearl. Your panels won't match, especially with your gun issues. I would drop all this and go to a solid color.
ill get it i dont learn by giving up, the epoxy primer on the car came out perfect except for a run that i got in the door but later fixed


thats why i asked i figured the panels wouldnt match ,just wanted to be sure on the way to do it.

my friend thats helping has onyl painted a few cars but he has more experiance then me , but we have another friend who works in a body shop and does this for a living he is going to come by and help, but i wanna learn how do this myself not just have somone do it

so i dont care if i have to burn threw a few gallons of paint before i can actually put any on the car
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Old 03-15-2014, 07:07 PM
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Practice yer gun control before, you go and waste , as you said, GALLONS of paint.
Go to your paint supplier and just buy a few quarts of his mismatched colors (metallic or pearl) for cheap and practice with it.
Sure an experianced painter can guide you, but you have to get the feel of the gun yourself.
Nobody can teach you "the feel"


STUPID IS, STUPID DOES
It's your money if ya want to flush it down the toilet,pull the chain.
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Old 03-15-2014, 07:14 PM
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you don't work up to benching 300 lbs by immediately beginning with 300 pounds on the bar, and if that's what you want to do I'm afraid I'm not strong enough to spot you.
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Old 03-15-2014, 07:42 PM
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Great points above. So much of it is feel and you really cant teach feel. You have to learn it the hard way. What I can say is what I was taught by a famous custom painter and we preach to our customer base now as best practices. 75% Overlap, don't go wide open on the fluid control, start with the upper end of your gun manufacturer's pressure recommendation and dial down slowly as needed. A drop coat as Lizer mentioned for your last coat usually does the trick. We have customers that have to paint in pieces for various reasons but we generally advocate spraying it all at once.

If memory serves me correct you are doing all this work with Duplicolor lacquer? If that is a true lacquer that is not going to handle pearls and metallics as well as a true basecoat that has special additives to help with orientation. In fact, even many factory mixed true basecoat blacks do not have the same orientation additives to help make pearls/metallics lay evenly. In my opinion you are better off buying a pre-mixed dark blue pearl for that reason. What kind of color change were you hoping for?

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Old 03-15-2014, 08:04 PM
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I do admire your ambition and your determination. However if you want to become an all star hockey player, then you first must learn how to ice skate. The color you are trying to achieve is a tough one for even a very experienced painter in the "best" conditions. Those blue pearls love to mottle and tiger stripe, and almost always have to do a drop coat. The gun settings are very important, as is gun speed and distance and overlap. On a basic overall paintjob with a solid color, the things that can go wrong are a grocery list long. Now throw in the inexperience and a tough blue pearl, the odds are clearly against you. On this particular color, if your heart is set on it, it would be cheaper for you to pay someone that can handle it. After you factor all the materials in, then all the time re prepping ( many hours of wet sanding ) what you are not happy with. The redos and materials trying to learn the feel of spraying those very tricky colors can be overwhelming. However we all had to start somewhere, and if you are determined to do it yourself, then the best of luck to you and hang in there.
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:53 PM
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As I read through this, I noticed a lot of good information given from experienced people. The "feel" does have to be learned and practice is the only way to learn. Drop coats are helpful with some colors as well. Gun settings will vary for each painter depending on the "feel" they like and the gun being used.

The thing that concerns me is I noticed someone mentioned you may be using (or attempting to use) Dupli-color paint. If that is the case, I doubt you will have much luck getting the results you want. Now let me first say I am not completely against cheaper paint lines for some things. Car lot specials, cheap production work etc, however, if you are dealing with pearls, metallics, etc, you need to invest in a quality base coat (PPG Deltron or global, Dupont Chroma-premier, glasurit, HOK) The higher the quality of paint is usually easier to work with, especially when you are trying to work with fine metallic or pearl.

I agree that the best course of action would be to find a color that gives the effect you want and use a base/clear that gives those results without having to use a 3 stage system with the pearl mid coat. It will be easier now and will give you the ability to make repairs in the future. 3 stage jobs (base, pearl or candy, and clear) are virtually impossible to match or blend repair in the future. I am not saying impossible, but if you do use the 3 stage system then make very accurate notes of each step (number of coats, gun settings, temperature, humidity, length and size of air hose, etc)

Also, this may seem trivial as well, but you never mentioned what brand of paint gun you are using. I was always a little skeptical of the high priced guns syaing you were paying for name, until I used a quality gun. I am not going to say you can't get good results with a cheaper gun, I have seen it happen, However, it is much easier to achieve with a quality gun (Sata, Iwata, devilbiss etc)

Sorry for the long post, just trying to offer my personal thoughts on the subject. Hopefully something I have said will help you along the way even if not on this job. Best wishes to you on your projects.

Kelly
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TheCoatingStore View Post
Great points above. So much of it is feel and you really cant teach feel. You have to learn it the hard way. What I can say is what I was taught by a famous custom painter and we preach to our customer base now as best practices. 75% Overlap, don't go wide open on the fluid control, start with the upper end of your gun manufacturer's pressure recommendation and dial down slowly as needed. A drop coat as Lizer mentioned for your last coat usually does the trick. We have customers that have to paint in pieces for various reasons but we generally advocate spraying it all at once.

If memory serves me correct you are doing all this work with Duplicolor lacquer? If that is a true lacquer that is not going to handle pearls and metallics as well as a true basecoat that has special additives to help with orientation. In fact, even many factory mixed true basecoat blacks do not have the same orientation additives to help make pearls/metallics lay evenly. In my opinion you are better off buying a pre-mixed dark blue pearl for that reason. What kind of color change were you hoping for?

i bought the duplicolor just so i could practice with something cheap and get a feel for how much pearl makes a change in the paint , say going from 10 grams to 15 etc. i knew i would screw up when i first tried so i figured id save so money and waste cheap stuff not the good stuff i intend to spray the car with

this week when i get paid i will see if my local body shop will sell me a quart of ppg black paint and some clear to go with it that i can practice with

this the effect im after

i want the car to look black in the shade and low light or say on a cloudy day, and then when the sun hits it the blue really comes out

ive almost got the effect i want it just didnt turn blue enough in the sun, u could see it turned blue but it didnt stand out like the above picture, so i think adding some more pearl will take care of that

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr4speed View Post
I do admire your ambition and your determination. However if you want to become an all star hockey player, then you first must learn how to ice skate. The color you are trying to achieve is a tough one for even a very experienced painter in the "best" conditions. Those blue pearls love to mottle and tiger stripe, and almost always have to do a drop coat. The gun settings are very important, as is gun speed and distance and overlap. On a basic overall paintjob with a solid color, the things that can go wrong are a grocery list long. Now throw in the inexperience and a tough blue pearl, the odds are clearly against you. On this particular color, if your heart is set on it, it would be cheaper for you to pay someone that can handle it. After you factor all the materials in, then all the time re prepping ( many hours of wet sanding ) what you are not happy with. The redos and materials trying to learn the feel of spraying those very tricky colors can be overwhelming. However we all had to start somewhere, and if you are determined to do it yourself, then the best of luck to you and hang in there.
thank you i knew when i started it wouldnt be easy but i didnt think it would be this hard either , im willing to stick with trying but only up till a point, im willing to throw 2-300 bucks at it in practice before i give up.
today i went threw about 65$ in supplies so not bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
As I read through this, I noticed a lot of good information given from experienced people. The "feel" does have to be learned and practice is the only way to learn. Drop coats are helpful with some colors as well. Gun settings will vary for each painter depending on the "feel" they like and the gun being used.

The thing that concerns me is I noticed someone mentioned you may be using (or attempting to use) Dupli-color paint. If that is the case, I doubt you will have much luck getting the results you want. Now let me first say I am not completely against cheaper paint lines for some things. Car lot specials, cheap production work etc, however, if you are dealing with pearls, metallics, etc, you need to invest in a quality base coat (PPG Deltron or global, Dupont Chroma-premier, glasurit, HOK) The higher the quality of paint is usually easier to work with, especially when you are trying to work with fine metallic or pearl.

I agree that the best course of action would be to find a color that gives the effect you want and use a base/clear that gives those results without having to use a 3 stage system with the pearl mid coat. It will be easier now and will give you the ability to make repairs in the future. 3 stage jobs (base, pearl or candy, and clear) are virtually impossible to match or blend repair in the future. I am not saying impossible, but if you do use the 3 stage system then make very accurate notes of each step (number of coats, gun settings, temperature, humidity, length and size of air hose, etc)

Also, this may seem trivial as well, but you never mentioned what brand of paint gun you are using. I was always a little skeptical of the high priced guns syaing you were paying for name, until I used a quality gun. I am not going to say you can't get good results with a cheaper gun, I have seen it happen, However, it is much easier to achieve with a quality gun (Sata, Iwata, devilbiss etc)

Sorry for the long post, just trying to offer my personal thoughts on the subject. Hopefully something I have said will help you along the way even if not on this job. Best wishes to you on your projects.

Kelly
i dont mind the long post at all , my friend has a sata gun, apparently our other friend who is going to come help has a really really exspensive gun for doing stuff like this


the duplicolor was cheap so i figured for practice it would be good so i didnt burn up my good paint , i will be using spi paint and clear when we go to do the car.
as mentioned above maybe its the cheap duplicolor thats is also compounding my problems

i also wanted to mention when i mixed the pearl in with the clear instead of the base i didnt get tiger stripes , but i did move to slowly and it went on to thick.
by this point i was just burning up the last lil bit of clear i had just to see what pearl in the clear would do over black. i wasnt trying to make it come oout well i just wanted to really see what effect it would give sprayed over the black instead of mixing the pearl with the black
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:25 AM
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my thoughts.

Trying to do a first time metalics and pearl is difficult. On my first paint job when I was in high school almost 60 years ago I did all the body work and primer then had a relative who was still in school too, but had spent a lot of time hanging out at a one man body shop, watching asking questions and getting to practice with what was left over in the gun. He sprayed a few solid color cars before he did the metalic for me and it looked excellent, only a small run down on the bottom of the quarter. I later worked in a dealership that had a Contract body shop in the back and that guy hated to do all the prep work. He sprayed a lot of cars for kids when he finally decides it was ready and masked, He charged less than renting a compressor and gun.
I practiced a lot and finally was doing a few paint jobs for other guys and my own work.
In the 70's Ford tried to do a factory base black with gold flake in it on 500 Mustangs. Those painters did 300 cars every day and the fenders and hood were painted on a separate line-booth . They did not match, even with a lot of experts from the supplier to the chemical-paint engineer. Repairs were impossible and most had to be completely repainted after final assembly.
UVU in orem utah has a paint your own car class listed, I don't know how often it repeats, If you are over 65 and a Utah resident the cost for a semester used to only be $ 100.
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Old 03-16-2014, 05:44 PM
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also wanted to mention when i mixed the pearl in with the clear instead of the base i didnt get tiger stripes , but i did move to slowly and it went on to thick.
by this point i was just burning up the last lil bit of clear i had just to see what pearl in the clear would do over black. i wasnt trying to make it come oout well i just wanted to really see what effect it would give sprayed over the black instead of mixing the pearl with the black

Ok, that helps explain it a little better to me. If you are after the effect on the nova in the picture, you are likely going to have to use a blue candy over a black, but a pearl may get you there as well. I would recommend calling the shop in your picture and asking them what they used to reach that result. Also, when you are adding pearls and candies to achieve that "ghost" effect, usually you will add them to an intercoat clear. After all prep is complete, spray the base and let it flash off, then mix the candy or pearl into intercoat clear and add teh amount of coats it takes to achieve the desired results (in your case, you may want to keep a flash light handy to check after each coat of pearl). After you have reached the desired effect, you let the intercoat clear flash and spray your top coat clear. The intercoat clear will aly smooth like base, but helps control the movement of the pearl or candy and does not change the base coat color like mixing the pearl into the base. You can mix the pearl or candy into regular clear, but most top coat clears are thicker and dry slower than intercoat clear and will allow more movement of the pearl or candy and also ends up with a LOT more build that could lead to problems. I am sure you plan to cut and buff after the painting is complete and again you will want to have the pearl or candy burried under the top coat of clear or you will be sanding and buffing the pearls out if they are in the top coat clear (similar to metallic issues found when using single stage and buffing). Hope this may help you out a little more, if I didn't make it more confusing than it needs to be. I am not always the best at putting my thoughts into words.


Also wanted to add that if you are going to have the hood, doors, or any other panels off of the car while painting, be ABSOLUTELY SURE you lay or hang them in the same position they will be on the car when finished and re-assembled. IE Hood laying flat, doors hanging upright etc. Any variation in final orientation will effect how the pearl, candy, or mettalic lays down and will cause matching problems. AND remember to allow plenty of flash time between coats and steps to avoid solvent getting trapped and causing a solvent pop or delamination issue.


Kelly
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