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Old 10-08-2011, 02:18 PM
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After 20-30 minutes lifters make lots of noise

Hey guys I was wondering if you would be able to give me an idea of what might be going on. When I first start the engine it runs great no hickups runs very smooth. But after 20-30 minutes which I think is about the time that the oil gets up to operating temp and thins out. The oil is fresh only maybe 2-5 miles on it. I have tried tightening all the lifters but it doesn't seem to help the issue... any ideas? Thanks everyone!

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Old 10-08-2011, 02:32 PM
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Little more info Zil. New build or any recent work? What`s the oil pressure? If it`s not a new build how many miles? Small block chevy I`m guessing? Solid lift or hydraulic or roller?
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Little more info Zil. New build or any recent work? What`s the oil pressure? If it`s not a new build how many miles? Small block chevy I`m guessing? Solid lift or hydraulic or roller?
My bad I should have known to put all that info in lol. Its was a new build two years ago but i forgot to file fit the rings and was having lots of oil consumption issues so i pulled it apart last winter and rehoned the block and put properly fitted rings in it. i also did a head swap but the cam is the same and all the lifters were kept in the correct order. Its a flat tappet hydraulic cam. the motor probably has 20 miles on it and yes its a sbc. I was gonna get it on the road but here in wny we had frost and little bit of snow last weekend so no point in getting it on the road till next year.
Oil pressure at startup is about 70-75 like i said its fresh oil. any more rpm than idle like 1500-1800 while cold ill get over 85psi when the engine warms up and lifters start makign noise oil pressure at idle is around 45psi.
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zildjian4life218
My bad I should have known to put all that info in lol. Its was a new build two years ago but i forgot to file fit the rings and was having lots of oil consumption issues so i pulled it apart last winter and rehoned the block and put properly fitted rings in it. i also did a head swap but the cam is the same and all the lifters were kept in the correct order. Its a flat tappet hydraulic cam. the motor probably has 20 miles on it and yes its a sbc. I was gonna get it on the road but here in wny we had frost and little bit of snow last weekend so no point in getting it on the road till next year.
Oil pressure at startup is about 70-75 like i said its fresh oil. any more rpm than idle like 1500-1800 while cold ill get over 85psi when the engine warms up and lifters start makign noise oil pressure at idle is around 45psi.
Is there eny Valvespring Schimz out of place? do you use guidplates?

I Live In Finland we haventgot enny Snow Yet Nice to hear about some getting it before us!
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:01 PM
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I had a problem like that a few years ago.

Turned out the lifter bore clearance was too tight on my engine.

It also lead to cam lobes going flat.
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scandinavian
Is there eny Valvespring Schimz out of place? do you use guidplates?

I Live In Finland we haventgot enny Snow Yet Nice to hear about some getting it before us!
I don't use guideplates because the vortec heads use a self-aligning rocker arm. I don't believe any shims have shifted but I can check.

We didn't get a lot just enough to remind you the area we live in lol.
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
I had a problem like that a few years ago.

Turned out the lifter bore clearance was too tight on my engine.

It also lead to cam lobes going flat.
I did notice they were tight when I originally put them in over a year ago but this past year when I reassembled everything they seemed to fit perfectly... im assuming after break-in they wore into place.
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:48 PM
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My lifters also went into the holes ok.

But they only had around 0.0005" clearance. (less than 0.001"). I guess lifters expand more than the block, so the lifters started dragging in the bores when the engine warmed up.

you need 0.001 to 0.0015 for a flat tappet lifter and 0.0015 to 0.002" for a roller lifter.

I'm not saying this is your problem, but it could be.
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
My lifters also went into the holes ok.

But they only had around 0.0005" clearance. (less than 0.001"). I guess lifters expand more than the block, so the lifters started dragging in the bores when the engine warmed up.

you need 0.001 to 0.0015 for a flat tappet lifter and 0.0015 to 0.002" for a roller lifter.

I'm not saying this is your problem, but it could be.
Do i use an inside telescoping gauge and mic to measure the lifter bore and then a mic to measure the lifter and just subtract? That would make sense that they expand quicker. a lot less material to heat up than an entire engine block

The thing i don't get is this was not an issue last year.... only since i pulled it apart for new rings and bearings and heads
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:04 PM
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I guess that would work ok. But a simple bore test may not see an oval hole or a non straight hole.

I have a lathe, so I machined some round gages that looked like lifters. Made 4 gages: +0.0020, +0.0015, +0.0010, and +0.0005". Then did a "go, no go" test on each bore with the different gages.

I didn't fix the block, as it would had cost 500.00 to do that. so i used the lathe again, and sanded down the lifters 0.001".

works great now.
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Old 10-09-2011, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zildjian4life218
I don't use guideplates because the vortec heads use a self-aligning rocker arm. I don't believe any shims have shifted but I can check.

We didn't get a lot just enough to remind you the area we live in lol.
Have you set the valves in this order?

To adjust preload on hydraulic lifter camshafts with
adjustable rocker arms, turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation until the exhaust lifter starts to move up, then
adjust the intake valve to zero lash with no preload, then 1/2
to 1 turn more. Turn the engine over again until the intake
opens completely and then is almost all the way back down.
Now, set the exhaust valve to zero lash, then 1/2 to 1 turn
more. Continue the above procedure for each cylinder until
all valves are adjusted to the same amount of preload. This
procedure will give you the correct lifter preload for any
hydraulic lifter cam with adjustable rocker arms.

You got the winter to find the problem Check the pushrods to se if all of them are straight! Wath CR do you're engine have?

Yepp the winter is coming this year too! this morning we had -1 degrees Celsius ore 30F and ill guess in January we will have about 4-6 feet of snow and -30C ore -22F Then youl be pretty happy to live in WNY.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:56 AM
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Just a little something you can try. Before you do your next oil change, pour half a can of seafoam in the oil and let the car idle 20 minutes. Then do your oil and filter change. If your not using synthetic oil I would if the budget allowed and maybe step up to a heavier weight oil.
I always adjust the valves with the engine running, that way I can listen for the changes. I use the old hot rodders trick called "zero lashing" hydraulic lifters. Once the engine is up to temp, I pop a valve cover, then idle it up to 1800 RPM so the oil pressure goes up enough to fill the lifters, Then I back off the rocker arm until it taps, then very slowly tighten it until the tap stops, then give it a quarter turn. However, I`ve also set them with the engine just at idle, when it`s at idle you can really hear the effect the adjustment has on the engine. I have found when set to zero lash they idle smoother. Since yours are ticking, I would experiment, I`d get it up to temp, pop a valve cover, back off until it taps, then tight until it stops then experiment with adjustment. Start by giving it a quarter turn at a time and see if I could find a sweet spot where the tick was no longer heard. If that didn`t solve the issue I`d be looking into elsewhere for the issue.
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Just a little something you can try. Before you do your next oil change, pour half a can of seafoam in the oil and let the car idle 20 minutes. Then do your oil and filter change. If your not using synthetic oil I would if the budget allowed and maybe step up to a heavier weight oil.
I always adjust the valves with the engine running, that way I can listen for the changes. I use the old hot rodders trick called "zero lashing" hydraulic lifters. Once the engine is up to temp, I pop a valve cover, then idle it up to 1800 RPM so the oil pressure goes up enough to fill the lifters, Then I back off the rocker arm until it taps, then very slowly tighten it until the tap stops, then give it a quarter turn. However, I`ve also set them with the engine just at idle, when it`s at idle you can really hear the effect the adjustment has on the engine. I have found when set to zero lash they idle smoother. Since yours are ticking, I would experiment, I`d get it up to temp, pop a valve cover, back off until it taps, then tight until it stops then experiment with adjustment. Start by giving it a quarter turn at a time and see if I could find a sweet spot where the tick was no longer heard. If that didn`t solve the issue I`d be looking into elsewhere for the issue.
If You do it this way it wont be right when the engine is cold! And its going to result in Premature Cam&Lifter Failure
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scandinavian
If You do it this way it wont be right when the engine is cold! And its going to result in Premature Cam&Lifter Failure
The procedure DV explained is correct and the BEST way to adjust SBC Hydraulic lifters.
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by T-bucket23
The procedure DV explained is correct and the BEST way to adjust SBC Hydraulic lifters.
Explain to me why it is the best way?
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