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Ask as I go bbc thread

18K views 209 replies 7 participants last post by  Dfish1247 
#1 ·
I finally got my block to the machine shop this morning. It's a factory 4 bolt 454 block, already 4.28" bore. Hoping it won't need to go more than 4.31" bore. 4.25" crank is going in, and supporting rods and pistons.

Anyway, I ordered arp main bolts, and oil filter adapter. Machinist wanted the new bolts for when they check line bore.

The car is a 1964 Buick skylark Buick 455/th400/ chevelle 10 bolt 3.08 posi, 215/65/15 eagle gt tires. And power brakes and steering.

The rear end and tires should do while I'm breaking the engine in. Full throttle, I know they're useless. 9" and 275/50 sticky tires should lend a big hand, that'll have to wait.

Here's the plan, Brodix race rite oval port heads, rpm air gap dual quad intake, I'm guessing 650cfm on carbs, 10-10.5/1 compression, hydraulic roller cam, roller rockers, small cap distributor, headers, and converter that works with the cam.


Pretty sure one carb makes more power, but this is a street car and two are just too cool, to me anyway.

Cam, I'm thinking 112lsa, low 230's duration so I have enough vacuum for brakes. And torque converter looks to fall in mid 2000's- low 3000's.

Hopefully that lays it out enough to get started, feel free to butcher my idea to pieces. Everything is open except heads, roller cam. Not keen on budging on the dual quads, but open to pro flow 4 injection or a dominator carb( if one of those can actually work, and work well, not holding my breath though.) Has to be a cool intake setup, I'm fine with tinkering to get it working right.
 
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#34 ·
I have no clue other than what I’ve read, we all know how dangerous that tends to be. I can have a tire shop measure for an exact fit when the time comes, but if 4.5” backspace 15x8 with a 275/50/15 tire will work fine, then great. Or wider wheel if possible.

Torque Thrust D wheels are about all I’ve found I like, dull magnesium look is my favorite on a 60’s A body.
 
#35 · (Edited)
I know the Buick mounts and stands won’t work, I believe they are Poston mounts. Someone will get a flex plate to front pulley, carb to pan motor when I sell the 455.

Both the kits from ecklers and ss396 say they're for 64-67 chevelle, that's the best I've found as I haven't found anything clear on correct part numbers for factory pieces, I want new parts either way.

The 20408 is supposed to fit without interference anywhere, I'd read a post about the 20403 needing reshaped where the sump meets the crossmember. Hopefully all this will fit without too much fuss.
 
#38 ·
None of them have the type of crappy design I was talking about. I had to re-invent mine. A whole different design were 1 bolt goes through the top piece, the upper and lower rubber cushions down to the lower mount. There was less than 1/8" of rubber holding the engine from going sideways. I did some work to them to accept some mopar transmission mounts with steel in the donuts.
 
#43 ·
Here she is and a couple other parts showed up. If my oil pump shows up today, I can close up the bottom end.
 

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#44 ·
Instructions for swedging the oil pump pickup tube and screen onto the oil pump, mounting the oil pump onto the motor and setting the play between the screen and the bottom of the oil pan.

Visit a craft or hobby store and get a small quantity of modeling clay, the original kind that is gray and has an oil base. Pla-Doh and other plastic based crap will not hold its shape and will result in erroneous findings.

Currently-available Chinese junk press-on pickup tubes are not the same quality that these tubes/screens were a few years ago and are unlikely to have the integrity required to make a good swedge and seal. So, once we have the tube and screen installed at the proper height to allow 3/8" to 1/2" clearance between the screen and the bottom of the oil pan, we will weld the pickup tube to the oil pump so that it cannot move and therefore, cannot fall off or suck air.

Here's a video of a couple of yokels trying to install the tube with open end wrenches.

They're beating on the pump and the rear main cap and the rear main bearing and the crankshaft as well. You hear the one guy say just before they shut off the camera......"there's probably some special tool you use for this" Well yeah, there is a special tool for this, braintrust, sold by Summitracing and others for about $17.00. Summit part number PRO-66491 will get you an installer tool for a 5/8" diameter tube. Summit part number PRO-66480 will get you an installer tool for a 3/4" diameter tube.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66480
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66491
Now, as all hotrodders know, nothing fits without some surgery, so be prepared to customize either of these tools if you buy one or the other.

With a couple of short (8 to 10 inch) lengths of 2 x 4 lumber, nail them together to look like a short-backed sofa. (Lay one piece of wood down on the wide side, then lay the other piece of wood behind the first piece on its narrow side, so that it sort of looks like a funky sofa couch.) You will use this fixture sit the pump on to pound the installer tool to put the tube into the oil pump. Your buddy will hold the "sofa" on the bench or table or on his lap if he's a brave lad and hold the pump on the sofa while you hold the installer tool and pound the tube on with a hammer. DO NOT BOLT THE PUMP TO THE REAR CAP TO POUND THE TUBE ON LIKE THE RETARDS IN THE VIDEO.

You will want to insure that the bolt which holds the pump onto the rear main cap is not too long. Watch this video beginning at 0:55......

continue to watch and pay attention to the oil pump driveshaft that he talks about....Then he begins to check the pickup to pan bottom clearance, saying that you need about a 1/4" between the pickup and the pan. This is too close, the pickup should be 3/8" to 1/2" off the bottom of the pan. Any closer and the pump could suck the bottom of the pan up to the pickup screen and cut off oil to the pump. Any farther away and the motor could starve for oil under extreme conditions, such as running low on oil. Pushing the pickup down with the pan is acceptable, but again, you want 3/8" to 1/2", so here is the procedure. With your clay, make a little teepee, maybe as big around at the bottom as a large drinking straw and about 1/2 to 5/8" tall. Smush the clay onto the dry, clean (de-greased) flat bottom of the screen, spray the clay with WD40 so it will not stick to the bottom of the pan and ease the pan down into position with the gasket in place. Pull the pan back up, set it aside and measure the height of the little clay teepee. This is the absolute proof of pickup to pan clearance. Tweak the pickup in the pump and do it again if you do not get 3/8" to 1/2" clearance. The final step is to weld or braze the pickup onto the pump all around the tube. This makes the installation bulletproof.
 
#45 ·
Just saved this procedure as well, and thank you very much for taking time to write that up.

Just to sate my feeble mind.
Would 3/8” clearance be more preferable to 1/2”?
Will a couple tacks be plenty to hold the pickup tube on, or should the pump be disassembled and the pickup be fully welded? I ask about disassembly due to reading welding heat will kill the spring.
And finally (for now anyway) I got the oil pump stud, should I run the stud down finger tight till it bottoms out, then back off 3/8 of a turn, then as I torque the nut, it will turn slightly ashouldn’t hit the main bearing?
 
#46 ·
3/8" will be fine. 1/2" will be fine. 7/16" will be fine.

If there is a blind hole where the stud goes, then it won't matter. Put a little Loctite on it and thread it in at 10 ft/lbs, making sure that you have enough thread to take the full nut on the top. If the hole is open to the main bearing, Loctite it and thread it in until it touches the bearing, then back it out 1/2 to 1 whole turn. Let the Loctite set up before you assemble.

Oil pumps are very simple and can be completely disassembled in just a few minutes. Make notes.
Weld the tube completely is my best advice. Not only will that keep it in place, it will prevent the pump from sucking air. Don't weld the whole circumference at one sitting. Do a little, let it cool, then do some more.
.
 
#48 ·
After 5 hours there it is. The oil pan needed a little work due to hitting the outer front main cap bolt on the passenger side, then had to shave a tiny amount off the oil pump body so the pan would line up on the bolt holes. Timing cover went on in about 2 minutes and the short water pump clears the cover. Lot of work and cleaning. Added bonus, the moroso pickup tube fit the melling pump perfect and has a tad under 12mm clearance from the pan bottom.
 

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#49 · (Edited)
Took all day to find a good balancer installer, but it finally got installed. Plus the gloriousness showed up, big flipping valves for sure.

Probably Monday I'll bolt the heads on, couple questions, which bolts get thread sealer and is pure silicone ok to use since it stays springy? What should I wipe the deck surface off with before putting on the heads, isopropyl alcohol and paper towel ok?
 

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#50 ·
BBC just need oil on the threads.

I use brake cleaner on a paper towel to degrease.

Looking at that exhaust flange reminded me that the last engine I installed with those heads needed to have the headers flanges ground to clear the head bolts, and it was a Corvette so getting the headers in an out was a hassle.
 
#51 ·
Head bolts need sealer if they go through into water jacket space, otherwise motor oil or the bolt manufacturer's specific lube.

Make sure the rocker arm studs were also sealed if they go into water jacket or the roof of a port so they don't suck oil or leak water into the valvecover area. Some companies have been known to neglect this on assembled heads..
 
#54 · (Edited)
Make sure the rocker arm studs were also sealed if they go into water jacket or the roof of a port so they don't suck oil or leak water into the valvecover area. Some companies have been known to neglect this on assembled heads..
DING-DING-DING.......times 10 on this tip. It's one of the most overlooked areas of engine building and can result in an engine that burns oil and you will have no idea where the oil is coming from. Remove any studs that are threaded into an intake runner and seal them with Permatex Aviation sealer.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Permatex/775...7S3jOuc4BrsQ36OVKFjxij7YvnfgOWuIaArvdEALw_wcB

The other area that allows oil into the cylinders is at the mating surface of the head at the intake manifold, usually along the bottom where spraying a combustible substance will not find the gap. Spend a considerable amount of time examining the head to manifold connection before you bolt the heads down for the final time. Sometimes a thicker gasket can help seal up the gap at the bottom, if it does not misalign the heads with the intake too much .
 
#52 ·
Didn't put heads on today, just didn't feel like it. However, I chased the head bolt holes and they're all good, had a tight spot a couple times, but nothing concerning.

What thread sealer do you guys like? I've seen aviation sealer, rtv, 100% silicone. Any preferences?

Once the heads are on, I can measure for pushrods, do I need two length checkers due to exhaust being longer than intake? Haven't found a checker that goes from 7"-10", they all seem to move 1" and that's it.
 
#53 ·
Didn't put heads on today, just didn't feel like it. However, I chased the head bolt holes and they're all good, had a tight spot a couple times, but nothing concerning.

What thread sealer do you guys like? I've seen aviation sealer, rtv, 100% silicone. Any preferences?

Once the heads are on, I can measure for pushrods, do I need two length checkers due to exhaust being longer than intake? Haven't found a checker that goes from 7"-10", they all seem to move 1" and that's it.

I made my own. If you buy one, you'll have to get one in your range.
 
#55 · (Edited)
Finally got the heads on, the valve covers and intake are just on so I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. Gotta check pushrod length, then can put those on for good.

The 6 year old shop foreman said fingerprints on shiny valve covers are fine, lol.
 

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#56 ·
I ordered a pushrod length checker, plug wires, and boot shields today( gotta get free summit shipping)

Anyway, I called Straub this morning and am going to use their method for getting pushrod length, then get pushrods from them, being they are a 30 minute drive from me.

I was warned the rocker studs may be too short, but to check first before buying anything.

When I get my pushrods, for final assembly,do I need to put assembly lube on the lifter rollers or just dip them in oil, I'll assembly lube the pushrods and valve tips obviously.
 
#58 ·
Thanks Eric for the advice.

I just got through measuring pushrods here are the results, I used the Scott Foxwell video geometry method and just centering the rocker wheel on the valve stem


Exhaust = 8.486" geometry, 8.650" center of valve stem, the geometry result looked just slightly towards the intake vs center of stem, but my eyes are not a microscope.

Intake= 7.581" center of valve stem, geometry method could not get a result because the rocker bottomed out on the rocker stud with still 1 turn to go. The wheel was about to fall off the valve stem, I've got to be doing something wrong.

I used the same rocker to do both intake and exhaust and have a dead straight line drawn from the center of the trunnion to the wheel pin. Could this have caused my problem on checking the intake?
 
#60 ·
If I had the rocker way up the stud it was close to going off the exhaust side, but bottomed out, it was trying to fall off the intake side.

Talked with Mr. Straub and he gave a big explanation of what was going on, said brodix put a taller intake valve in than factory, and the pitfalls of not setting this up right. IE, ruining the valve guides for one example. It's put the brakes on for now as I have to work over the weekend, so I"ll get back on it Monday.
 
#61 ·
That's where I was headed, the +.100" longer valves Brodix puts in these heads and the rockers Straub has made to his spec to fix the problem, with the shorter length between center pivot and roller tip and the shorter distance between the pivot and the pushrod cup to keep the ratio what it should be.

Crower and Comp Cams also sell a "backset" rocker for this same situation.
 
#62 ·
Welcome to the world of "bolts right up", can't remember where I read that, but if it ain't the truth. I'll call him tomorrow and if not outrageous, just take the engine up there and get them to measure and get me the right parts. 16mpg from the truck and a 30 minute drive each way who knows how many times will negate any savings doing it myself.


But, this is my first big block, so gotta learn somehow.
 
#63 ·
My dad went to straub for me and got the rockers as I had to work. I think he's more excited than me to see it run,hehe.

Anyway, got them measured and ordered, hopefully be here next week sometime and I'll get to close the top end up. Measured 3 times and got 7.6185" intake and 8.4100" exhaust all 3 times.
 
#64 ·
Guys, pushrods and rocker arms are in. But, I stumbled on lunati's instructions for pre load and they say 1/4 turn, my pushrods are .050" longer than measured for pre load, so I done 1 full turn after I couldn't rattle the pushrods up and down. Which one is right, baring the engine over I can't feel any binding anywhere currently, and I have not primed the engine yet either.
 
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