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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:41 PM
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I thought 15x8 5” backspace was what the A bodies took?

Anyway, looks like Monday at the earliest for the short block to be mine again. The timing chain in the set was loose(gm performance single row chain) so got a cloyes and all is well, just needs freezeplugs and paint then it’s mine again.

I have ordered what I think is the bulk of the big stuff. Edelbrock victor water pump, rpm air gap intake, race rite oval heads, Howard’s 1.7 rocker arms, Doug’s D322-R headers, moroso 20408 oil pan and pickup, m77 oil pump, Edelbrock timing cover, power master mini starter, and arp bolts to put this mess together. I will post pictures when they arrive.

Last but not least, the question box. Doug’s states to use factory big block motor mounts and stands, ecklers has the kit for $140, energy suspension has a kit plus frame bolts for $150, is it a wash between the two? Or can someone point me to the correct kit if neither of these are right? Thanks in advance.

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Old 02-08-2019, 09:44 PM
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Forgot to add, i forgot to ask which thickness head gasket to use, so that’ll be ordered when I get the motor
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:52 PM
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15" x 8" w/5" backspace fits, the same rim with 4.5" backspace is the minimum backspace needed to get the outer edge of the tire under the quarter panel wheelhouse outer lip....A 4" backspace 8" wide wheel won't fit without jacking the rear up over the tire at ride height. Example is all the 3-3/4" backspace 8-8.5" aftermarket wheels of the 1970's needing the HiJacker look to fit.

5" backspace just gets it under a little farther, IDK maybe that is necessary with the flatter rear quarter shape of the early Buick and Olds A-body??…. compared to the more common Chevelle or GTO/LeMans/Tempest I'm familiar with?

You'll need factory BBC Chevelle motor mounts and frame stands....Factory Buick Big Block stands won't work for your swap. Have to be '65-67 type too, the '68-72 are different on the frame stand half. Oil pan to crossmember clearance may be a tight situation too.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:05 PM
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I have no clue other than what I’ve read, we all know how dangerous that tends to be. I can have a tire shop measure for an exact fit when the time comes, but if 4.5” backspace 15x8 with a 275/50/15 tire will work fine, then great. Or wider wheel if possible.

Torque Thrust D wheels are about all I’ve found I like, dull magnesium look is my favorite on a 60’s A body.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:10 PM
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I know the Buick mounts and stands won’t work, I believe they are Poston mounts. Someone will get a flex plate to front pulley, carb to pan motor when I sell the 455.

Both the kits from ecklers and ss396 say they're for 64-67 chevelle, that's the best I've found as I haven't found anything clear on correct part numbers for factory pieces, I want new parts either way.

The 20408 is supposed to fit without interference anywhere, I'd read a post about the 20403 needing reshaped where the sump meets the crossmember. Hopefully all this will fit without too much fuss.

Last edited by Dfish1247; 02-08-2019 at 10:40 PM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2019, 06:27 AM
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Do you have links for the motor mounts?
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:29 AM
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https://www.ecklerschevelle.com/chev...1964-1967.html

https://www.ss396.com/chevelle/AMC-1...hevelle&year=0

https://www.ss396.com/chevelle/ENG-103KIT-R.html


The one in the middle I'd guess is a bone stock replica.
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:50 AM
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None of them have the type of crappy design I was talking about. I had to re-invent mine. A whole different design were 1 bolt goes through the top piece, the upper and lower rubber cushions down to the lower mount. There was less than 1/8" of rubber holding the engine from going sideways. I did some work to them to accept some mopar transmission mounts with steel in the donuts.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2019, 12:50 PM
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Ecklers looks bone stock too as far as I can tell.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2019, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfish1247 View Post
Forgot to add, i forgot to ask which thickness head gasket to use, so that’ll be ordered when I get the motor
You will need a thick stainless steel rule, minimum 6" length, and a good set of feeler gauges. I use a magnetic base and dial indicator to find absolute top dead center of each piston, but if you take your time and experiment with the rule and feeler gauges, you can get the piston dead nuts at TDC. I like to have the flywheel/flexplate bolted onto the crank and use a 24" long heavy-duty screwdriver that I call Dirty Harry to engage in the teeth of the plate and wedge against the bolts that hold the motor to the stand, in order to turn the crank slowly as I check and re-check for TDC. This prevents using the damper retaining bolt to turn the crank, which can loosen the bolt if you have the damper installed and have to back up the crank.

Stand your rule on edge and span the piston in line with the wrist pin to prevent rocking the piston on the pin and getting an erroneous reading. Use a felt tip permanent marker to write your finding on the piston crown so that you can choose a gasket that will give you the clearance you want on the tightest piston. It is possible that you will find a variance of around 0.005" from the front to the back of the block. I hope the range of clearance is smaller than that, but all you can hope for is that they will all fall into a range that will allow you to choose a composition head gasket that will put your squish/quench somewhere between 0.035" and 0.045".

Doing this procedure according to the firing order will shorten the time required. Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. So, if #3 is very close to TDC when you start, you would go 3-6-5-7-2-1-8-4 for instance. That way will require only 2 full turns of the crank.
.

Last edited by techinspector1; 02-09-2019 at 01:31 PM.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2019, 04:11 PM
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I saved that procedure in a word document, that'll come in handy.

I'll call both places, plus dougs headers and ask, that will suck royally to have the wrong mounts. I thought gm was more user friendly than this,hehe.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:14 PM
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Here’s some new goodies, more to come. I’ll get the motor in the am,was pee pouring rain this afternoon.
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Old 02-13-2019, 11:47 AM
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Here she is and a couple other parts showed up. If my oil pump shows up today, I can close up the bottom end.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2019, 09:47 PM
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Instructions for swedging the oil pump pickup tube and screen onto the oil pump, mounting the oil pump onto the motor and setting the play between the screen and the bottom of the oil pan.

Visit a craft or hobby store and get a small quantity of modeling clay, the original kind that is gray and has an oil base. Pla-Doh and other plastic based crap will not hold its shape and will result in erroneous findings.

Currently-available Chinese junk press-on pickup tubes are not the same quality that these tubes/screens were a few years ago and are unlikely to have the integrity required to make a good swedge and seal. So, once we have the tube and screen installed at the proper height to allow 3/8" to 1/2" clearance between the screen and the bottom of the oil pan, we will weld the pickup tube to the oil pump so that it cannot move and therefore, cannot fall off or suck air.

Here's a video of a couple of yokels trying to install the tube with open end wrenches.
They're beating on the pump and the rear main cap and the rear main bearing and the crankshaft as well. You hear the one guy say just before they shut off the camera......"there's probably some special tool you use for this" Well yeah, there is a special tool for this, braintrust, sold by Summitracing and others for about $17.00. Summit part number PRO-66491 will get you an installer tool for a 5/8" diameter tube. Summit part number PRO-66480 will get you an installer tool for a 3/4" diameter tube.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66480
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66491
Now, as all hotrodders know, nothing fits without some surgery, so be prepared to customize either of these tools if you buy one or the other.

With a couple of short (8 to 10 inch) lengths of 2 x 4 lumber, nail them together to look like a short-backed sofa. (Lay one piece of wood down on the wide side, then lay the other piece of wood behind the first piece on its narrow side, so that it sort of looks like a funky sofa couch.) You will use this fixture sit the pump on to pound the installer tool to put the tube into the oil pump. Your buddy will hold the "sofa" on the bench or table or on his lap if he's a brave lad and hold the pump on the sofa while you hold the installer tool and pound the tube on with a hammer. DO NOT BOLT THE PUMP TO THE REAR CAP TO POUND THE TUBE ON LIKE THE RETARDS IN THE VIDEO.

You will want to insure that the bolt which holds the pump onto the rear main cap is not too long. Watch this video beginning at 0:55......
continue to watch and pay attention to the oil pump driveshaft that he talks about....Then he begins to check the pickup to pan bottom clearance, saying that you need about a 1/4" between the pickup and the pan. This is too close, the pickup should be 3/8" to 1/2" off the bottom of the pan. Any closer and the pump could suck the bottom of the pan up to the pickup screen and cut off oil to the pump. Any farther away and the motor could starve for oil under extreme conditions, such as running low on oil. Pushing the pickup down with the pan is acceptable, but again, you want 3/8" to 1/2", so here is the procedure. With your clay, make a little teepee, maybe as big around at the bottom as a large drinking straw and about 1/2 to 5/8" tall. Smush the clay onto the dry, clean (de-greased) flat bottom of the screen, spray the clay with WD40 so it will not stick to the bottom of the pan and ease the pan down into position with the gasket in place. Pull the pan back up, set it aside and measure the height of the little clay teepee. This is the absolute proof of pickup to pan clearance. Tweak the pickup in the pump and do it again if you do not get 3/8" to 1/2" clearance. The final step is to weld or braze the pickup onto the pump all around the tube. This makes the installation bulletproof.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2019, 10:09 PM
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Just saved this procedure as well, and thank you very much for taking time to write that up.

Just to sate my feeble mind.
Would 3/8” clearance be more preferable to 1/2”?
Will a couple tacks be plenty to hold the pickup tube on, or should the pump be disassembled and the pickup be fully welded? I ask about disassembly due to reading welding heat will kill the spring.
And finally (for now anyway) I got the oil pump stud, should I run the stud down finger tight till it bottoms out, then back off 3/8 of a turn, then as I torque the nut, it will turn slightly ashouldn’t hit the main bearing?
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