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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:41 PM
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I done that as well, held the pump in the pan I drained the oil in, my dad started the drill, with a 3/8 corded drill wide open, oil came out about 6" above the pump, but it wasn't a geiser by any means. My drill does spin fast as well.

Yes I made sure it was turning clockwise, if I turned it the other way, I could hear the oil gurgling in the pan, even done this in the drain pan when doing the above.

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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 02:06 PM
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Drill driving pump in a pan of oil should result in a geyser 3 feet tall. Want to truly test the pump fab up a plate to bolt across where it mounts to the cap, with a fitting to screw a gauge or gauge line into, to see exactly what pressure the pump is making.

Discharge out of the pump base is opposite the entry hole in the main cap, that is why there is a cavity around the bolt hole in the cap.

I'd pull the pump cover off and inspect the bypass valve for travel back to the closed position.

Gear and case clearance wouldn't affect the pump that badly...it would have to be something like a big assembly mistake at the factory for that to happen, short standard volume gears in a +10%deeperoe deep High Volume pump casting leaving1/16" or more clearance between gear end and the pump cover..

Still sounds to me like the bypass in the pump is 1/2 open or more. Did you check how smooth the bypass travel was while you had the spring out??.

55Tony, yes, filter bypass has nothing to do with this.

Gear to case clearances should all be under .005", ends, sides, etc.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 03:50 PM
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Took the pump cover off and checked bypass travel, it is smooth and falls out of the hole on its own, and I'd guess it fully seats back in the cover, both holes are covered by the shaft.

Got all that done, popped a couple bolts in the pan, flipped the motor back over, put oil back in, and after 10 minutes, still no pressure, no bog on the drill, just the dribble at the oil galley. I torqued the cover and stud just to rule that out.

Glad to know that about the oil discharge area, I figured that was right but just seems odd.

I work around gear pumps and have seen what they are capable of, it's downright scary.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 05:10 PM
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Take the spring out of the bypass and block the bypass valve fully shut with a piece of hose, threaded rod, bolt shank, 1/4" fuel line tubing, anything you can fit in there to hold the bypass valve fully closed and try it.

Something really odd going on here....wondering about a big leak somewhere after the main cap upward....but I would want to cap and pressure test the pump with a block off plate and a gauge to see if the pump is just flat out flawed somehow.
Or try another pump, say from local parts place stock replacement. Take it back if it proves fruitless. Bucket test the new pump too, don't even need a pickup to see if there is a big drill load difference.
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Old 05-09-2019, 09:51 PM
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I plugged off the bypass and redone the bucket of oil thing, same puny 6" ish spurt of oil. Plus, no drill load either, I'm not Hercules, but I could almost hold the drill with 2 fingers if I wanted. I am not putting the pump back in the motor with a piece of hose and a bolt run through it to seal the holes. I put too much effort into keeping it clean to be doing that. Plus, it just seems the pump is bad.

Oh and just so I wasn't crazy, I pulled the distributor out of my truck and primed the pump there, it taxed the drill pretty darn good, like I know it should.

What would leak above the main cap? The block was crack checked if that adds any value.

Last edited by Dfish1247; 05-09-2019 at 09:57 PM.
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 11:54 PM
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Front oil galley plug left out or pushed out,

maybe rear cam bearing improperly installed but I don't know if this can happen in a BBC like it can in an SBC...in the SBC if the rear bearing isn't driven in far enough it leaves the annular oil groove around the bearing bore exposed....huge internal oil leak.

I don't know the BBC oil path well enough to know if this is a possibility.

BBC crankshaft main feed is down in the driver side oil pan rail of the block, isn't it?? I thought that is what keeps guys from being able to put big strokes in a stock production block.

I agree, try a different pump and see what that gives you.

I'm just scratching my head at this point,
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:40 AM
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I know the galley plugs are in, I saw them before I put the timing cover on. I didn't mic the depth or anything, surely to God the machine shop wouldn't screw that up.

Shouldn't I at least show some pressure just from the pump overcoming the filter and/or filter bypass? I am showing 0, and this gauge does work. Heck, I can't even get the gauge reducer fitting to leak, and i barely tightened it on purpose just to see. I didn't see any wear marks on the gears or the pump housing either, I figured I'd at least see something.

If I remember, the only weird rear cam bearing was on the 65-67 396 blocks, something about a groove in the rear bearing, but the 427-454 blocks took regular bearings.

They didn't mention anything about grinding clearance for the crank, and it's not on the receipt. Believe me, every finger movement got billed. Unless you mean 4.5" or bigger stroke.

I bit the bullet and ordered a moroso hv pump and another pickup, the other one is welded on, so it's toast. I have the hardened driveshaft already, so we'll see what happens, I'm not off again till Tuesday, so hopefully it'll show up by then and I'll try it out.

Just a real frustrating situation. My dad laughed and said " Now you know why I don't fool with this [email protected]&/ anymore"
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 06:28 PM
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My oil pump showed up. I have to run and get a pan gasket before trying it out.

Anyway, I measured pickup to pan clearance without a gasket and got 1/4" ish clearance, so with gasket, should be good to go.

My dad read something about dumping stp in the pump before priming, said it didn't make any sense as he always poured oil in the pump before installing so it wouldn't be dry when turning. Does the stp thing make any sense to you guys? Or would it hurt to pour a little assembly lube(red thick liquid stuff in a bottle) down the outlet? Or just dump oil(like we've always done) and have at it?
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:25 PM
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Oil into the pump is fine, STP wouldn't do anything better, it would still act just the same.
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:34 PM
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I figured that was the case. I'll fill, then try it in the pan of oil first to see what happens, it's a moroso 22185 pump/pickup combo, and it's high volume, so if that don't work, I'll be tearing it down further, hopefully not though.

I know bbb's you pack the gears with Vaseline, but they have that mile long draw tube to pull through. But, Chevys don't have that to deal with.

I'll grab some pics of the progress this time as well, I have slack off terribly on that.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:16 PM
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Put the new pump and pickup on, same freakin thing, no pressure.

I'm calling the machine shop and taking it back so they can fix whatever is wrong, something is missing somewhere because I have oil flow to #8 lifter bore, but I can put my finger over the hole and block flow, same at the oil pressure port.

I'll be decent about it, but something is wrong and I'll let them know it.
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:37 PM
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Bummer....got to be something they missed, for sure.

Wish I knew the BBC oil path well enough to point you where to look, but with an assembled short you paid good money for you are absolutely right, make them fix it.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 07:22 PM
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I'm going to pull the timing cover in the morning and see if a plug is missing.


If one is missing, should i use brass or steel for plugs, and is pipe dope ok or teflon tape?


Machine shop is pulling their maybe next week stuff, so I said screw it and try to find it myself vs hauling the motor there and being in jail for a while.


If none of those plugs are missing, what would be next, main bearing installed wrong? I read something about filling a clean coffee can with oil, submerging the pump, and priming with no oil pan on to see if they dribble vs gush oil, they should dribble is what I've read.
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 08:01 PM
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Should be steel allen pipe plug, very light amount of sealer like #2 Permatex or Edelbrock Gasgasinch, Permatex High Tack, or RTV silicone sparingly.

Following the oil diagram, you've got rear cam bearing and/or main bearings next on the oil path....if rear cam bearing isn't installed deep enough, it leaves the annular groove on the bearing bore exposed...huge leak when that happens....I've seen that on the SBC before. Oil leaks back to behind cam and floods out forward through the two drain holes in the rear cam journal of the camshaft.....a huge flood right back to the pan.

coffee can test was how we found it on the small block.
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2019, 09:20 PM
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Sounds good, thank you. Hopefully it's just a pipe plug missing, not any of that other stuff, yuck.
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