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Old 12-18-2018, 12:58 AM
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Ask as I go bbc thread

I finally got my block to the machine shop this morning. It's a factory 4 bolt 454 block, already 4.28" bore. Hoping it won't need to go more than 4.31" bore. 4.25" crank is going in, and supporting rods and pistons.

Anyway, I ordered arp main bolts, and oil filter adapter. Machinist wanted the new bolts for when they check line bore.

The car is a 1964 Buick skylark Buick 455/th400/ chevelle 10 bolt 3.08 posi, 215/65/15 eagle gt tires. And power brakes and steering.

The rear end and tires should do while I'm breaking the engine in. Full throttle, I know they're useless. 9" and 275/50 sticky tires should lend a big hand, that'll have to wait.

Here's the plan, Brodix race rite oval port heads, rpm air gap dual quad intake, I'm guessing 650cfm on carbs, 10-10.5/1 compression, hydraulic roller cam, roller rockers, small cap distributor, headers, and converter that works with the cam.


Pretty sure one carb makes more power, but this is a street car and two are just too cool, to me anyway.

Cam, I'm thinking 112lsa, low 230's duration so I have enough vacuum for brakes. And torque converter looks to fall in mid 2000's- low 3000's.

Hopefully that lays it out enough to get started, feel free to butcher my idea to pieces. Everything is open except heads, roller cam. Not keen on budging on the dual quads, but open to pro flow 4 injection or a dominator carb( if one of those can actually work, and work well, not holding my breath though.) Has to be a cool intake setup, I'm fine with tinkering to get it working right.

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Old 12-18-2018, 01:27 PM
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With cylinder bore of 4.310", stroke of 4.250", combustion chamber volume of 119cc's, gasket number Fel-Pro 1017-1 (available at Jegs) and zero deck, here is the pop-up you will need on the piston crown to achieve the static compression ratio shown.........
16- 9.97:1
17- 10.04:1
18- 10.13:1
19- 10.21:1
20- 10.29:1
21- 10.38:1
22- 10.47:1
23- 10.56:1
ZERO DECK MANDATORY.....squish/quench will be 0.039".
Use pistons with the tallest compression height you can find to prevent over-cutting the block decks and messing up the alignment of the intake manifold to head ports................. INTAKE MANIFOLD PORTS AND CYLINDER HEAD PORTS MUST BE PARALLEL IN X AND Y..........ASSUME NOTHING.

Last edited by techinspector1; 12-18-2018 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:23 PM
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The rotating assembly im getting has raised height pistons so the deck doesn't need cut. Also, going for the 20cc dome to get low mid 10/1 compression. My main bolts show delivery tomorrow, so get them to the shop and see what I've got.
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfish1247 View Post
The rotating assembly im getting has raised height pistons so the deck doesn't need cut.
You came on here looking for help, so either listen up or I'm outta here and will let you argue with someone else.
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Old 12-18-2018, 04:31 PM
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I’m not arguing, just letting you know the info. Sorry if it came across that way.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:26 PM
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I'm an old guy who is set in his ways. I have a lot of knowledge to pass on to someone like you, but please don't tell me that the block does not need to be decked. If you had said something like "why does the block need to be decked?", then we would be off to the races with an explanation that could have taken me a while, because I tend to get into detail when I explain something to someone, just like I would want them to get into detail when explaining something to me.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
I'm an old guy who is set in his ways. I have a lot of knowledge to pass on to someone like you, but please don't tell me that the block does not need to be decked. If you had said something like "why does the block need to be decked?", then we would be off to the races with an explanation that could have taken me a while, because I tend to get into detail when I explain something to someone, just like I would want them to get into detail when explaining something to me.
Tech....the OP is in Kingsport, Tennessee, home of both Fred White(White's Performance & Machine) and Skip White.....Skip is the guy on Ebay selling the well equipped SCAT based stroker kits fitted with Wiseco pistons, that he has special ordered with .015" taller than standard compression heights.

Finally someone in the performance parts business is forward thinking.

I'm guessing that's where you are planning to get the kit from, Dfish1247??
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:43 PM
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Thank you Eric. I took that into consideration and unless there is a special piston that is not in the Wiseco catalog, then all stacks are 9.780" using a 6.385" rod and 1.270" piston. If there was a taller piston available at 1.285", the piston would still be 0.005" down in the bore, putting the squish/quench at 0.044". That would be acceptable if I were building it, while 0.059" would not be acceptable to me. The catalog, showing the 1.270" piston, further calls out zero deck at 9.780"
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:16 PM
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I am going to use Skip White for the rotating assembly, have not found a better deal for the same parts. Plus if something isn't right, I'm in his office on someone's butt vs playing phone tag or being avoided. Shouldn't come to that. Talked to him yesterday hunting for main cap bolts and he seems trustworthy, little cooky, but trustworthy.

I'm having center street machine do the machine work, recommended by several circle track and drag guys around. They are also going to install the rotating assembly, the rest I can do myself.

I am hoping the block doesn't need a huge deck job, just a clean up and finish for the head gaskets. Really hope the block doesn't need any major surgery (sleeves,etc.) just a normal clean up and assemble. Even with the taller piston height, quench will still be yucky? Don't guess an mls gasket could recover some of that?

Anyway, after the block comes back to me, next steps are oil pan and timing cover. Best pan I can find is the moroso 20408 pan for a Chevelle with 4.25'' crank, reading around it has positive feedback.

Timing cover, I am going with a step nose cam so I can use the retaining plate vs a button, do I need a gen VI timing cover or will the mark IV cover work? Not a deal breaker either way, just have to use single roller chain with factory gen VI cover from what I understand.

This is where it'll come to a halt for a while(hopefully no more than a month) until I get the money saved up for heads, gaskets, and bolts. After that, I'll pick your brains on cam profiles and torque converters.


I should have worded my reply better, not personally knowing each other is a pain when trying to converse. Again, my bad and my apologies. Any info I get, I keep it around, has come in handy too many times to count.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Thank you Eric. I took that into consideration and unless there is a special piston that is not in the Wiseco catalog, then all stacks are 9.780" using a 6.385" rod and 1.270" piston. If there was a taller piston available at 1.285", the piston would still be 0.005" down in the bore, putting the squish/quench at 0.044". That would be acceptable if I were building it, while 0.059" would not be acceptable to me. The catalog, showing the 1.270" piston, further calls out zero deck at 9.780"
Yeah, they won't be cataloged by Wiseco, they are custom for Skip. They are +.010" compression height in the BBC kits, at 1.280" comp height.....so not quite as good as the .015" taller SBC stuff but still better than the average guy catalog part.

It's just another of the reasons I point folks to his kits when they come here looking for stroker kit suppliers. He is offering more features and solid brand names than all others at the same price points.

Looks like for the BBC that just going straight to a .010" deck cut for clean-up would get things set up pretty well with available gasket thicknesses.

Dfish1247, sounds like you've got a pretty decent grip on things so far.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfish1247 View Post
I'm having center street machine do the machine work.
I am hoping the block doesn't need a huge deck job, just a clean up and finish for the head gaskets. Even with the taller piston height, quench will still be yucky? Don't guess an mls gasket could recover some of that?
To make the motor resistant to detonation on pump gas, the piston needs to be even with the deck with the piston at top dead center, not down in the hole. With the piston at zero deck, the thickness of the head gasket describes the squish/quench. Since we are looking for a squish/quench clearance of 0.035" to 0.045", the 0.039" thickness of the Fel-Pro 1017-1 head gasket defines the squish/quench perfectly. This is the gasket that is recommended by Airflow Research, manufacturers of aluminum heads.

Motors using iron heads can use steel shim gaskets,but aluminum heads will "fret" with shim gaskets, wearing away the aluminum material. So, you have to use a thicker composition gasket to allow some "cushion" for the aluminum material.

Your next assignment is to ask the supplier what the "stack" of the reciprocating assembly will be. This will be the sum of the crankshaft radius (2.125"), the connecting rod (6.385") and the compression height of the piston, which I'm guessing will be 1.270". (9.780" will require cutting the decks to zero (9.780" zero block deck height or no more than 0.005" piston deck height, 9.785" block deck height.)
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:55 PM
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I gotcha now, definitley don't want to blow a hole where it shouldn't be. I'll let you guys know what the machine shop says and go from there.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72 View Post
Looks like for the BBC that just going straight to a .010" deck cut for clean-up would get things set up pretty well with available gasket thicknesses.
Let's wait and see what the OP comes up with. 1017-1 is the thinnest composition gasket that is recommended by an aluminum cylinder head manufacturer.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:57 PM
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Here's a couple pictures of the block and the first of many deliveries from summit, main cap bolts, those are being taken to the machine shop in the morning.

On a brighter note, our washing machine took a dump and had to get a new one of those today, there went $437 out of the toy fund account. Guess I'll have to nab a couple extra overtimes for the oil pan and timing cover.
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Old 12-26-2018, 03:10 PM
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Got a call from the machine shop, block is gonna need bored. They are gonna try .060 on the worst hole and see, hopefully no more than that. Just thought I'd say.
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