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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2004, 10:41 PM
 
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Best rust inhibitor?

(as he ducks a flying 11/16 combo.....)
ARIZONA!

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2004, 01:10 AM
 
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Here's a product that might possibly be as good or better than the ones mentioned already. I know a company's own tests are to a degree hype but you can compare this site with others you've checked already. I like what I read about it.

http://www.rustbullet.com/
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Old 06-11-2004, 02:42 AM
 
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Rust - the technical side of it.

Aside from drugs, sex and war, corrosion prevention rates at some where near fourth or so... in terms of "big business".

Coatings of all descriptions are applied to iron, to do two things, to preserve it's structural integrity (not fall to pieces) and to make it look nice...

Just contemplate everything that is made of iron carbon alloys - and that is NOT coated.

A few interesting facts.

PURE 99.9%+ iron does NOT rust....

But it's nearly as soft as lead, and for all intents and purposes, it's nearly worthless as a structural material.

Stainless steel is named that because when made into knives, it does not corrode and DISCOLOUR (stain-less) like a good carbon steel knife does especially after extended use.

i.e. it does not stain.

BUT in the right environment stainless steel rots like sugar in hotwater..

Make a big stainless steel tank... drop in water and oil - which through bacteria and oxygen make acids... (electrically conductive solution) and toss in stuff like lots of copper swarf - and then see what happens.....



All sorts of coatings can be applied.

1. Chrome plating, which is a coat of copper, nickel and several layers of Chrome. (shielding)

2. Zinc - can be applied in the form of hot dipping, eletroplating or in zinc based paints. (Galvanic - or the zinc becomes a sacrificial anode - the zinc corrodes and saves the steel)

3. Coatings in the form of hot dipping - powder coating, paints (everything from epoxy to plain tar or even grease / oil)

And there are things like zinc - alum, phsophates and chromates, and all sorts of magic (basic science and practical chemistry actually)

There are lots of things to do to stop rusting (corrosion) in cars, the first and foremost is to properly prepare the steel.

The Krauts used to dip their volkswagons (the entire car shell) in a series of baths, one to clean off the oil (to lubricate the press dies) and junk on the sheet steel (hot caustic soda? bath) and then a few rinses and then a water bath with perhaps a 5 - 10% solution of phosphoric acid solution, the FINE coating of iron phospahate, then made an excellent substrate for the primers and then the top coats.

Ummmm So the first thing to stop corrosion is to apply an appropriate series of treatment/s - depending upon service life and environment, including the need for cosmetic appeal.

(gold plated or colored jewelery and ornaments seem to sell alot more than tar coated or hot zinc dipped jewelery and ornaments do)

If you life in a desert, where it is bone dry and almost never rains a good quick wipe with an oily rag once a year or two is just as effective as anything.


But if you life close to the ocean with lots of strong winds and salt spray - then your going to need a lot more in terms of protection (= money, materials, time and upkeep / reapplication).

Car bodies interestingly enough, are made from the best steels as far as deep drawing goes, (think flat sheet to kitchen sink) but these very characterisics (high emounts of deformation), also make up for the worst corroding steels.......

The steels that resist corroding, also are the worst to make car body parts from in sheet metal press's.

Also in respect to the kitchen sink, people do not make cars out of stainless steel, because a) it is expensive and b) cars "look dated" and people do not want to be driving cars that "look old".

(yes the population is that brainwashed - gotta seen to be keeping up with the Jones's otherwise what will people think?)

Corrosion prevention and cure (in steel) can also be greatly improved by stopping water traps, (small or big water containers) by drilling vent holes (3/8 or 10 mm - are nice sizes ) in the bottom of doors and heating up the seams of doors past boiling point, (to drive the moisture out) then applying a silicone sealant or a huge amount of thick paint, to stop the water settling into the crevices at the bottom of the doors, starting from the top of the door.

See paints may be "good coverage" in relative terms but the issue is relative to what?

Paint is more or less a "sealant" but like rubber tyres, it is porous, not much in one sense, but like sperm, it only takes one to get the process going.

So while (slightly to very salty) water sits in the crevises at the bottom of doors, for days and weeks and months on ende, the paint absorbs ionised water (mineral salts) by osmosis and the little pores that allow air to escape from rubber tyres, also allow water molecules to migrate through paint (eventually).

So this is why doors and panels always rust out at the bottom and never at the top (and don't nit pick about the 1 in 5 million doors that do either)

So four things,

1. Seal the steel by a number of appropriate methods - phosphate, primer, under coat, top coats and a regular waxing.

2. Stop the water (as much as possible) from entering body cavities.

Remember condensation is not quite the same as a rain storm, but it causes fuel tanks and lots of other things to get rust holes through the bottom of the tank.


3. Stop the water (and dust) from gathering in the cracks and crevises.


4. Make nice little vent holes, at the bottom of doors, or where ever reasonably possible, or even cross flow holes which allow a little bit of air to flow through a cavity, for the water vapor, standing water and dust to vent freely from the body cavities.

5. And be reminded that most mineral salts (i.e. DUST), contain water or on in the crystal structure, in humid environments (think of table salt in a humid environment).

And salt does not just mean sodium chloride - it means many metal chlorides, sulphates, oxides, carbonates, raaaa raaaa raaaaaaaa raaaaaaaaaaa......


If you want to find out about corrosion - how it works, and how to stop it, like I said previously - go to a university and check out their videos and their library.


Another good source is ocean going ship builders, dry docking facilites, paint manufacturers, and corrosion engineers.

This posting is copyrighted by Shane T. Hanson
3/20 Halliday St Charlton Victoria Australia 3525.

No part may be reproduced, copied and or used etc. without prior written permission of the author.

Last edited by ButtWeldor; 06-11-2004 at 03:03 AM.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2004, 04:59 AM
 
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these products work on the short term, the only good product i found is to remove the rust to bare metal and then i use cold galvanize out of a spray can. rust is gone and wont come back. good luck with your project.
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Old 06-11-2004, 03:23 PM
 
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Re: Best Rust Inhibitor?

Quote:
Originally posted by bigbrowndog
I have been looking at a variety of rust inhibitors and all make claims of magically turning surface rust into magnetite or some other non-corrosive inert material, arresting rust in its tracks, and enabling you to paint over the top of it.

I am in need something that I can spray inside the doors of my '41 (surface rust), underneath the headliner, and various other places.

In your view, which of the available products works the best for the money and do they really work?

Thanks in Advance,

Ty
I have causmolin(probably spelt wrong). Farmers used this stuff to put on plow shears, it was used on military hardware to keep rust off. Called Rust not. I thinned mine with mineral spirits, put tape over drain holes(so it can soak in)Soap and water with a little mineral spirits added will take off. I have this stuff on 67 caddy bumpers(looks like rust at a distance)finger nail scrape will show chrome. You got to do this after your done painting/can not paint over. I have this inside my daily driver doors and under floor(wish I had done under headliner)1978 F150 Flareside.
Hope this helps.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2004, 03:50 PM
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Re: Rust - the technical side of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by ButtWeldor

A few interesting facts.

PURE 99.9%+ iron does NOT rust....
But it's nearly as soft as lead, and for all intents and purposes, it's nearly worthless as a structural material.

1. Chrome plating, which is a coat of copper, nickel and several layers of Chrome. (shielding)
A couple corrections to statements in your dissertation;

A) A quote from Dr. Linus Pauling, Nobel prize winner in chemistry, College Chemistry, Third Edition, W. H. Freeman and Co., 1964, page 647, "Pure iron is a bright silvery-white metal, which tarnishes (rusts rapidly) in moist air or in water containing dissolved oxygen." Exposure to oxygen is the cause of rust. Salts water, etc. accelerate the process but in the absence of oxygen there is no rust on iron based metals.

B) Decorative chrome plating in auto parts is mostly nickle, The chromium is an extremely thin, actually transparent coating. See this excerpt from one of many chrome plating sites on the web

"Decorative Chrome Plating

Decorative chrome plating is sometimes called nickel-chrome plating because it always involves plating nickel before plating the chrome. The chrome plating in decorative chrome plating is exceptionally thin, measured in millionths of an inch rather than in thousandths. It is still a very hard surface, but simple 'anvil' type hardness measurements don't detect the hardness because the anvil just punches through such a thin coating.

When you look at a decorative chromium plated surface, such as a chrome plated wheel or truck bumper, most of what you are seeing is actually the nickel. The chrome adds a bluish cast (filtering the somewhat yellowish cast of the nickel), and it protects against tarnish, and minimizes scratching. But the point is, without the brilliant leveled nickel undercoating, you would not have a reflective, decorative surface."
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2004, 03:57 PM
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Holly Cow!!!!
This is getting deep!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2004, 07:49 AM
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When I was younger (14 or so) I took baking soda and a little water so I made a little "paste", I boiled it, and I stained the stainless steel sink in the kitchen.

WD40 works, temporarily, or forever if it sits in storage forever. Best with just-machined engines and other rust-sensitive areas.

I heard of this one guy in Canada that gives the underside of his car a nice spray of his old motor oil, and the frame has very little rust compared to other canadian cars. Just do that to the daily driver, though.
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Old 06-12-2004, 09:18 AM
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I heard of this one guy in Canada that gives the underside of his car a nice spray of his old motor oil, and the frame has very little rust compared to other canadian cars. Just do that to the daily driver, though. [/B][/QUOTE]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Although this would violate all statutory rape and EPA laws.

Motor oil is the best undercoating. Problem with undercoatings is water getting underneath the undercoating via cracks in undercoating or areas of poor adhesion.
I have a relative in Michigan with a 63- 225 convert that use to coat with used motor oil in winter and that car still rust free and never has been painted.
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Old 06-12-2004, 07:56 PM
 
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I use a product called zero rust. It's about $40 a gallon. I use it like a rust inhibiting primer on frames, inside panels, etc. You can get the details at www.zerorust.com. To buy it, I recommend www.zero-rust.com. They seem to have the best prices that I have found.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2004, 10:12 PM
 
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rust converters

go to www.tinmantech.com.---picklex 20 works great it kills rust in its tracks.$100 a gallon.the tinman sells a product that does the same thing for $28.00 a gallon. theres also rust mort but i don't know much about it.zero rust has a good reputation.por 15 i've heard peels off and if rust is still active underneath things could rot out before you know theres a problem.kill the rust don't cover it up a few years from now you will be glad you did
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Old 06-13-2004, 12:29 AM
 
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Good point. Picklex 20 is a great product. I meant to say that before I use Zero Rust, I kill it with Picklex 20. Zero Rust is a cover up and preventative, not a complete killer or converter. I've used Eastwood's Oxisolv as well, but I think Picklex is the best. Rass-O-Nil is another good product. Supposedly the original that Picklex copied.

Good point. Picklex 20 is a great product. I meant to say that before I use Zero Rust, I kill it with Picklex 20. Zero Rust is a cover up and preventative, not a complete killer or converter. I've used Eastwood's Oxisolv as well, but I think Picklex is the best. Rass-O-Nil is another good product. Supposedly the original that Picklex copied.

Last edited by Huskerboy2; 06-13-2004 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 06-13-2004, 04:41 AM
 
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There are many companies here now that undercoat and in body spray various types of lubricant products to rust proof. "Rust Check", "Rust Free", and a host of others are either an oil product or as drip free I think they are Lanolin. They are always active. If you can see rust in a crevice or in pillar or something, you spray it and the stuff creeps into the surrounding rust and basically stops it going further. I've always used old engine oil to spray in my cars, but with the new prducts they are cleaner and most are drip free. You can see testimonials for its working just about anywhere. Go look at an old rusted dump truck in a scrap yard, find the section where the big leaky hydraulic piston was and scrape away the mess. Its the only part of the thing that looks like new!
It is messy, and its not for all, especially a showpiece rod, but if your trying to stop surface rust in an unseen place....it would be my choice.
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:27 AM
 
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Arizona Rust

To mustang50clay -
Talked to an accquantance (sp?) last night that had gone to Arizona to pick up a car and he was raving about "no rust in Arizona". Was he (as usual) full of s**t?
Charlie Smith
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Old 06-13-2004, 01:02 PM
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Re: rust converters

Quote:
Originally posted by willys57pu
go to www.tinmantech.com.---picklex 20 works great it kills rust in its tracks.$100 a gallon.the tinman sells a product that does the same thing for $28.00 a gallon. theres also rust mort but i don't know much about it.zero rust has a good reputation.por 15 i've heard peels off and if rust is still active underneath things could rot out before you know theres a problem.kill the rust don't cover it up a few years from now you will be glad you did
I'm checking out body tools for use in working on the Mustang and also found the tinman site

He has some good stuff in his FAQ including this from a 36 Ford Coupe owner. regarding another product he uses. He has an interesting comment regarding POR15
Quote:
" ... I have seen the POR peel off, and was greatly surprised by it because it apparently has a major reputation. "
I'd bet this relates to my comment earlier
Quote:
You need to get the loose stuff off.
obviously YMMV for all these products.
You can use the "next" link to go through the rest of the FAQ.

This link starts you at the top

Last edited by meanroy; 06-13-2004 at 01:07 PM.
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