Brake surge when stopping - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans Advertise
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:13 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: StAugustine FL
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Brake surge when stopping

I’ve been having a surge when braking for over a year now. It’s in the middle of the truck (95 gmc 1500) and it’s not happening when I apply the parking brake to diagnose the problem. If I lightly pump the brakes excessively and then brake to a stop it’s not as bad. Could I have a bad load proportion valve or maybe abs problem. At first it would come and go but now it’s all the time. Everything has been professionally check and all checks out. New shocks, steering components, rotors, drums, pads, shoes, wheel bearings, axle bearings, rear axles, driveshaft, trans mount, motor mounts, wheels, tires. I’m ready to pull the trans and change the torque converter bc I’m thinking it could be trying to stay locked. I’m at a loss. ???

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:41 AM
RWENUTS's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bowser, BC, Canada
Age: 68
Posts: 5,043
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 439
Thanked 716 Times in 650 Posts
Maybe calipers?
I had a sticky one on my 94 gmc acted like that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:51 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: StAugustine FL
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I forgot to list new calipers, wheel cylinders and flex brake line up front. It doesn’t feel like it is in the front end. I can hammer the brakes with hands off of the steering wheel and it stops straight and quick. It’s a mid to rear hopping
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:30 AM
39 master's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Alamogordo, NM
Posts: 1,244
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 286 Times in 244 Posts
I have a later model Silverado and it also "pulses" or surges. Found this is caused by small metal bits from the brakes getting on the ABS sensors. Quick fix for me is to take a garden hose and hit the front wheels full blast. This usually washes the filings away. Try this before moving on to costly items.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:49 PM
55 Tony's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Cocke County, TN
Posts: 1,143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 135
Thanked 196 Times in 175 Posts
If you suspect the locking torque converter is staying locked, put it into Neutral and stop to see if it makes a difference.
__________________
Young enough to learn ... too old to remember.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2019, 06:06 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: StAugustine FL
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Update, after changing the drums, shoes and wheel cylinders I still had the problem. I did put it in neural and applied the brakes, it was twice as bad. So I dropped the transmission and changed the torque converter, no more problems. The shudder stopped, no more bouncing, the rough idle is smooth and acceleration is as it should be. To find the problem I jacked up and supported the rear on stands, ran it to speed and it had the vibration so I removed driveshaft and same shaking, then unbolted torque converter and it was smooth. Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2019, 04:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: StAugustine FL
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Fixed, It was not the torque converter although the new converter is a improvement. When I changed it I removed the front wheels and used brake cleaner to clean the calipers and rotors. After a short drive it didn’t surge, but I drove it a couple weeks later and it surged. So I installed new rotors and brake pads and that was the problem. I’m going to have the rotors turned so I can see if they are warped, or if it might of been bad pads because I checked for runout and they are only a year old.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2019, 05:02 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 150
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 13
Thanked 35 Times in 29 Posts
I think it's always good when someone who has had a problem, cured it and and then explains how the problem was solved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:54 AM
rip-tide's Avatar
Magazines have “ISSUES”
 

Last journal entry: Looks good
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 932
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 322 Times in 233 Posts
Rotors would have been my first guess. After market are the worst, or turned, common problem. Surprised no one picked up on that here.

Pep
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:19 AM
55 Tony's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Cocke County, TN
Posts: 1,143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 135
Thanked 196 Times in 175 Posts
If I knew what brake surge meant and didn't listen to the symptoms, I would have said rotors right away also. I just had the rotors turned on my one car because they pulsed slower and slower as the car slowed down.


Is the cutting tip on most machines liquid cooled? Seemed really long that it took an hour to make two passes on each rotor. They said they could only go so much at a time or it would overheat the cutting tip which is understandable, I just don't recall it taking so long before? (I didn't wait, I came back) Maybe I'm used to drums and they only do one side of the rotor at a time?
__________________
Young enough to learn ... too old to remember.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:43 PM
johnsongrass1's Avatar
Race it, Don't rice it!
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Columbia, Mo
Age: 43
Posts: 7,072
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 111
Thanked 746 Times in 612 Posts
I have no idea what machine they were using but if the case is about the cutting tool overheating that’s a feed rate and speed problem. It’s probably just a crappy machine.
When I do it in the horizontal lathe you have to adjust the speed or feed rate to compensate for the rotor diameter. It takes only a few minutes for each rotor. Off car
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2019, 06:12 PM
rip-tide's Avatar
Magazines have “ISSUES”
 

Last journal entry: Looks good
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 932
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 16
Thanked 322 Times in 233 Posts
FWIW:
The thinner the rotor the quicker the pulse/surge/runout returns, the rotor warps. Wasting time turning them, if doing after markets. Toss em, with the pad replacement.

When I drove company cars 30 years, maintained by BadYear/Firestone. Standard practice, pads and rotors, after the first set replaced. Every brake maintenance required rotors with pads after that. The front end would start to pulse before the squeakers would sound off. Company would have saved coin just changing pads.

Drums always wear faster the rotors not so. Change the pads when they start complaining, saves the rotors.

Have the same rotors that came on my truck 99, 150K. Have always replaced pads with GM, on my 3rd set. Are the OME pads $$$ yes they are ...... are they worth it yes they are.

Pep
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2019, 06:53 PM
55 Tony's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Cocke County, TN
Posts: 1,143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 135
Thanked 196 Times in 175 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rip-tide View Post
FWIW:
The thinner the rotor the quicker the pulse/surge/runout returns, the rotor warps. Wasting time turning them, if doing after markets. Toss em, with the pad replacement.

Pep

I've had some rotors turned and they warped again, and I've had some turned and they were good for many many moons and miles after and ran them problem free until I got rid of the vehicle. So I feel it is in my best interest to try having them turned once to see what happens before replacing them.
__________________
Young enough to learn ... too old to remember.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2019, 06:14 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Zephyrhills, Florida, USA
Age: 77
Posts: 16,982
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 1,919
Thanked 2,830 Times in 2,117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 Tony View Post
I've had some rotors turned and they warped again, and I've had some turned and they were good for many many moons and miles after and ran them problem free until I got rid of the vehicle. So I feel it is in my best interest to try having them turned once to see what happens before replacing them.
The more you have them turned, the more material you remove from the rotor. The more material you remove from the rotor, the easier they warp. Buy new and have them checked before install. That's my best advice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2019, 06:51 PM
55 Tony's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Cocke County, TN
Posts: 1,143
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 135
Thanked 196 Times in 175 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
The more you have them turned, the more material you remove from the rotor. The more material you remove from the rotor, the easier they warp. Buy new and have them checked before install. That's my best advice.

Lets say new rotors cost $120 for the pair and getting them turned costs $16 for the pair. They have never been turned before, plenty of meat on them. I get them turned and they last 80,000 miles without a problem and I get rid of the car? How would new ones have been better? That's been my experience most of the time. I think I've only had two sets that were really bad. Not long after being turned they pulsed again. Replaced them. The others either never gave me a problem, or having them turned fixed the problem for as long as I owned the vehicle. If I bought new each time I'd be way in the hole.
__________________
Young enough to learn ... too old to remember.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.