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Old 11-18-2014, 06:09 PM
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[Chevy] Advice on Supercharged 383

I'll start by saying this-
I'm a teen hot rodder, so I don't know everything!

Alright, I own a 1978 Camaro, and I'm putting an Edelbrock Supercharged 383 motor in it this summer, and I need some advice on how to do my setup. (Where better to go than the Internet...)

Alright, so I have these parts on my shopping list-
Supercharger
Carb (x2)
Heads

And then MSD 6 BTM and other timing parts...

What I need is to know this-
Will my engine blowout?

I'll be generating about 5-6.5psi of boost, and will have H345NCP .030 over pistons. (Sealed Power pistons, coated)
I have 1:6 ratio roller rockers with a .594 roller camshaft

If you need anything else just ask and I'll have the answer for you.

I need advice for fuel (going for both mechanical and electric fuel pumps)
I need advice for CR (10:1)
I need advice for what drivetrain to use (I have a TCI TH400 atm...)
I need a lot of advice. Anything helps!
~J

Thanks in advance!!

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Old 11-18-2014, 06:52 PM
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Way too much compression, get it down to high 7's, low 8's for that much blower. I'm not a fan of that Eaton setup, the belt especially, but that's just me, never ran one.

That's a lot of carb with two 800's for the street, whatever you use be sure to boost reference them.

My general build is an 8-71 383, two Mighty Demon BC 750's, solid Lunati roller, isky rev kit, Dart Pro-1 heads, splayed billet 4-bolt mains, AIS water/alchohol injection, BTM-6. Running a 4k TCI converter, Extreme Automatics spragless T-400 with a Griner safe neutral VB, (a $5k piece, not a budget trans by any stretch), FAB-9 rear, 4:11 Detroit Locker, 4-link, 4W discs, on and on. All that taken into consideration, I don't feel it's bullet proof. New motor at test and tune, no BTM or injection, I destroyed pistons, detonation I couldn't hear, hammered so bad I couldn't pull the rings with vise grips. Lots of related damage.

Stuff to consider if you go big. Keep in mind, with a static c.r. of 10:1, 6 lbs of boost will result in an effective c.r. of 14.1:1.

Also, a blower cam likes split duration, more on the exhaust side.

I would suggest reading a lot. Try Street Supercharging by Pat Ganahl, the best $20 you will spend. Google it. And of course, ask questions here.

Why two fuel pumps?

Where are you in Texas? I drug the Nova from Anchorage to Georgetown, just North of Austin, stayed there for two years until the heat ran me off.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:04 PM
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I'm in Fort Worth.

I know that CR is crazy, but the pistons I have will create that kind of CR, unless I go with 70cc heads instead of 64cc. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep it all in mind.....

It is a traditional roots style supercharger, positive displacement.

Now, when I have this setup, it will be on the street. (As in daily driver)

Primary carb will be set pretty lean, but secondary will be rich as it can go.
These are Thunder AVS carbs so they can be tuned REALLY well...from what I understand...

Basically, the fuel pumps will be working in conjunction with each other to create the pressure I need, BUT the electric fuel pump will be turned on manually by a switch on my panel to be used ONLY when I need it, otherwise the mechanical fuel pump (130gph) will be the only one I use.
Here are my pumps-
Electric
Mechanical
Fuel Pressure Regulator

As always, thank you for your help!

~J
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildude24 View Post
I'll start by saying this-
I'm a teen hot rodder, so I don't know everything!

Alright, I own a 1978 Camaro, and I'm putting an Edelbrock Supercharged 383 motor in it this summer, and I need some advice on how to do my setup. (Where better to go than the Internet...)

Alright, so I have these parts on my shopping list-
Supercharger
Carb (x2)
Heads

And then MSD 6 BTM and other timing parts...

What I need is to know this-
Will my engine blowout?

I'll be generating about 5-6.5psi of boost, and will have H345NCP .030 over pistons. (Sealed Power pistons, coated)
I have 1:6 ratio roller rockers with a .594 roller camshaft

If you need anything else just ask and I'll have the answer for you.

I need advice for fuel (going for both mechanical and electric fuel pumps)
I need advice for CR (10:1)
I need advice for what drivetrain to use (I have a TCI TH400 atm...)
I need a lot of advice. Anything helps!
~JThanks in advance!!
Well Dude, at least you didn't come here with an attitude. I'll stay up past my bedtime to help someone who comes across as genuine like you do. Let the education begin.

First, carburetors are very fuel-pressure sensitive. Flow is controlled by a tiny little needle and seat arrangement, whereby as the flow of fuel into the bowl increases, it raises the bowl float. A tang on the backside of the float pushes up against a needle that has a pointed tip made from a composite material so that it will seal well in the seat. As the needle approaches the needle seat, the flow of fuel begins to slow down until the needle is fully seated in the seat and flow comes to a halt. That is, flow comes to a halt if the fuel pressure is within range of the ability of the needle and seat to control fuel flow. If pressure exceeds the ability of the needle and seat to control the flow, then the bowl overfills and fuel runs out into the intake manifold, where it becomes a fire hazard as well as flooding the motor with fuel and creating a tuning nightmare for you if you're unaware it's happening.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OwZJ_wpagQ...ors_work+.jpge
Most any modern 4-bbl carburetor will operate well up to 5 to 6 psi of fuel pressure. Over that and you're risking the scenario I explained above. I have had several fellows tell me that their Edelbrocks work best with 4 3/4 to 5 psi. So, understand that high pressure is not what you want here. High volume will serve you well however and if I were doing it for you, I'd run 1/2" fuel lines from the tank to the carburetor. I like to run a supply line and a return line to prevent the fuel pump from dead-heading and burning itself out, because you know where it will burn out, on the bypass construction road just outside Burnt Stump (population 23, including 7 burros, and no cell phone reception) at 3:00 in the morning. I'd install a premium fuel filter before and after the pump and inspect them weekly. I'd also forget the mechanical pump idea. One electric pump will provide all the volume and pressure you will need. Mount your fuel pressure regulator and pressure gauge up close to the carburetors.

Now, as far as static compression ratio, if you're going to use pump gas, then you will have to pay attention to this chart from Blower Drive Service. The static compression ratio is shown down the left column and the blower pressure is shown across the top of the chart. The shaded area shows the maximum pressure to be used with what static compression ratio. In other words, you can see on the chart that an 8.00:1 SCR motor is limited to 8 lbs of boost on pump gas and an 8.5:1 SCR motor is limited to 6 lbs of boost. If you were to use the 10.0:1 SCR that you referenced above, the boost would have to be limited to 4 lbs to prevent detonation and complete destruction of the motor.
Technical Charts

If you insist on using 64cc heads, then you will need a piston with a 31cc dish to arrive at the 8.5:1 that will allow you to puff 6 1/2 psi into the motor without detonation. SRP 148750 forged pistons is what I would use. You can see in the photo that the piston has a fair-sized flat area on the crown to generate a good squish, although some fellows will not care too much about squish on a blower motor.
SRP 148750 350 SBC Dish
I would not begin a blower build using cast or cast hypereutectic pistons.
70cc heads and a 24cc dished piston would yield 8.6:1 SCR.

No need to add more strain to the motor with 1.6 rockers. This is a blower motor. If you want more poop, change pulleys. Use 1.5 rockers.

Aluminum heads are going to want a ~0.040" thickness gasket, so in order to engineer the squish at 0.035" to 0.045", you will need to cut the block decks to zero deck, after having your machine shop tech check the main bearing bores for being round and parallel with each other. Measure the dimension of your stack of parts, (1/2 the stroke, piston compression height and rod length) to determine your stack height. Half the stroke is 1.875", the rod length to use with the 148750 piston is 5.7" and the piston is 1.425", for a stack of 9.000". Since the production blueprint block height is 9.025", you would want to remove 0.025" from the decks to bring them to 9.000" for a zero deck. With the piston at flush with the block deck with the piston at top dead center, the squish would be described by the head gasket compressed thickness. I would use a Fel-Pro 1003 (0.041" compressed). I don't foresee any problems with this gasket and 6 1/2 lbs of boost, if you have detonation under control.

OK, get wrapped around that and we'll talk more later......

.

Last edited by techinspector1; 11-18-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:27 PM
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First of all, HOLY WOW that's a lot...
Second of all, THANK YOU that's great advice, I'll be doing this over the summer, so thank you very much.

The valve reliefs are +5cc and there's four per piston... So does that equal +20cc?

Also, it will be running on Shell Premium only (93 octane) and I'll be putting in octane booster before I push the engine above 4,500 RPM. Also the fuel pump is so I can use easy flow during daily driving, with low pressure and low volume, but when I put on the electric with my switch and relay that I'll wire in, it will give me ~45psi pressure and high volume, but the boost responsive fuel pressure regulator will return the unused fuel before the carbs flood.... or so I think.. Tell me if I'm wrong! What I want is mechanical and electric so I can tune the fuel for what I need it, WHEN I need it.

~J
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:35 PM
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This Google Doc contains all the links to most of the parts I'll be purchasing this summer, if someone could go through and tell me what wouldn't work and what wouldn't be the best for my setup, please do so!

What my application is-
Weekend Warrior show car/daily driver
Yes, really.....that's why I have two fuel pumps
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:43 PM
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Buy the book that was recommended before any purchases are made. You will quickly see where your starting off wrong.
Compression + boost+ lean = an expensive lesson. There is not going to be a "primary" carb set lean and one set rich.
Your not going to run hyper pistons and expect it to live past any kind of tuning stage.
Your compression is way high for a roots blower.
A mechanical pump in front of a big elec pump becomes a restriction.
Not busting your balls here, just trying to save you some money.....
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:43 PM
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And tech got the hole shot...disregard my post, he has you covered.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:09 PM
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Looking through your list, there are some things that won't work, and some that I would just change to something better.

First problem is, you've linked to a 3.75" stroke crank that is one-piece rear main seal style, do you have the '86-newer 350 block to put this in?? At the same time, the cam and lifter kit requires a roller cam compatible block, is your block also factory roller capable??

Linked 3.75" stroke crank, and the linked pistons both show they are for use with a 5.7" connecting rod, but you've linked to a short 5.565" stock 400 length connecting rod. This combo will put the pistons 1/8" low in the block at TDC....not a working combo, and almost nobody builds short rod 383's anymore.
Pick out a 5.7" rod instead and you'll be good with the rotating assembly.

Next you've linked to rear gears and posi unit for a 7.5" 10-bolt, your '78 Camaro would be stock with the much tougher 8.5" 10-bolt....so you'll have to make sure of what you actually have there.

The Funky clear valvecovers do not last, they begin to turn yellow as soon as oil hits them, and get gradually worse in a very short time, like the plastic headlights do on a 10 year old Taurus or Neon does, in about 1 years time. Also are very prone to cracking and spiderweb hazing. Just not a good choice.

I take it from the list being different than the first post, that you have ditched the use of the H345NCP piston(which I'm glad you did), but the 5cc reference is the volume of all 4 reliefs together, so it does not equal 20cc.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:00 AM
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I assume you're talking about a bypass/return fuel pressure regulator...those carbs won't tolerate much more than 4.5 to 5 psi at WOT.
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Old 11-19-2014, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildude24 View Post
Also, it will be running on Shell Premium only (93 octane) and I'll be putting in octane booster before I push the engine above 4,500 RPM.~J
Leave the octane booster on the shelf. It is crap, inconsistent and a sucker buy. It advertises a 1,2 or 3 point (note - point) increase depending the brand or mixing ratio. I would assume that you are unaware that a 'point' is .1 octane - not 1 octane. From what I'm reading you'll need to have a precise fuel mixture to get this tuned right. Either build it to run on local 93 octane pump gas or be prepared to be blending fuel with pump gas and race fuel and you'll need to be precise, not just close. I'd hate to see you're build go to h**l in a handbasket because of inconsistent fuel, and from what you're describing - it could.

I've ranted on other threads about the snake oil in a bottle octane booster - it's garbage and will let you down. Personally, I'd recommend running fuel that will be over spec'ed for your application and that way you'll always be covered.

I concede to Eric, Tech, 68Nova and bygddy on all other info. My only recommendation is to build it to run safely and creeeeeeep up on the tune so that you'll have it for long time. You mentioned your age and experience, trust these guys and you need to have access to someone 'in the know' about when you've maxed out what your bottom end, fuel system, and ignition system can handle. These guys won't lead you astray.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress

Forgot to mention, a good AFR gauge makes the tuning go quicker and easier. Innovate makes a decent one for less than $200, but you'd probably be better off with two - one in each header.

Last edited by 64nailhead; 11-19-2014 at 03:09 AM. Reason: Forgot about AFR gauge
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:04 AM
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WOW. Thank you guys!

This is all very good info, I'll make sure to check everything out...

When I have time I'll go through and replace some of those parts and then I'll get some reading material as well.

My current project to get me the money for this summer is a 1940 Chevy Special DeLuxe, so I'll be working on that for now, then I have a '54 Bel Air that I'll be putting a dual quad 283 in to make it a gasser.

Otherwise, you guys saved me hundreds!

Does everyone agree with the tranny?

And then what kind of rods should I get?

And the block is an '87 350 block, factory roller as well. 4-bolt main, factory bore until I take to my engine machinist and he'll do it right...

So those pistons are what I need instead of the H345NCP? Could I use those and get 70cc heads?

And the fuel regulator IS bypass, it is boost referenced.... Someone tell me a good fuel setup then? I want this to be a good daily driver with at least 5mpg...... So something like that.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:52 AM
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Piston Rods and Fuel Setup

Alright, so guys, I-Beams or H-beams
And then what material should I go with?
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:13 PM
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Internal parts material depends on who deep your pockets are. Myself, I live on overkill and went forged all the way, but it's certainly not necessary.

There's a few guys here that have daily driver blown and turbo setups, they'll be along sooner or later. Mine's street, but not daily driven.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:54 AM
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Goals

I'm going for that 8.5:1 CR, but I need to know what types of beams to use lol, H or I? And also, I want it to be a 383, just because it will have more torque. I feel like I could use it.

Does anyone have a recommendation on a fuel setup?
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