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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 11:37 AM
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Newb advice is exactly it, thanks guys. I have most of an hour in it, stopped for lunch. Boss has parts order ready to send, needs to know if this is a go. Hell I can't say quite yet. With time, maybe I can do this. Maybe not. Don't know how this looks or really even how its going but the extra length does add difficulty. Might lop it off. Piece is 48x24" to start with. Pics are a glare challenge. Talk to me, I'll be back at it in a jiffy. Needs more lengthwise curvature but the four foot length causes the dreaded blomping without an assistant. At one hour in, I am neither en or dis couraged, just trying to do it. I would not call this a low crown door, its pretty puffed up.






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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cornerstone View Post
Will a Trans am / Camaro m6, GM 10 bolt, disc,posi, 3.42 fit in a 83 cutlass that has a sbc 350 with a 350 tranny
Not without mods,,the Camaro is leaf spring and the Cutlass is Coil,,thet is why you get the G body Shuffle on the drag strip with a good engine,
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:19 PM
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Yeah the drivetrain forum is over there>>> Best of luck.

Man I am too bushed to boogie, that four foot piece punished me hard. Neck and shoulders. Uncle, Pugsy!

End of day, we are undecided whether to proceed but the parts order could wait a couple days. Beginning of today, I finished up those brackets between the side windows and was able to pin down my first set of 3D reference points rearward of the cowl precisely. That means the top front corners of the body lines on the quarters at the door jambs are exactly the same distance from center, floor, and dash.

Br'er 496David, heres a pic of the ole Tin Injun as she sits:



And now, tonight's feature presentation. I feel positive about a usable outcome on this learning exercise, but less so that time will allow further pursuit. In other words, I don't know if this will be used as scrap or a door skin. The issue with the wheel fought me as it would dig in unexpectedly. By 3 PM the fun was wearing off but knowing time was of the essence, I held and wheeled that sheet of metal while struggling with the tool nonstop for four more hours. At one point Big Mike reminded me about ol shrinky stretchy and we had a short go that helped on the front edge but not the top.

Toward the end of the day, I started getting the hang of tapering out the crown but along the way there were many mistakes. And there will be more, I hope. I'd like to finish it if rigor mortis doesn't set in. Kicking back and posting now to gather energy for bathing and eating. It was a steam bath day and I need to get a gallon of water in me and go to bed. Yeah, naw that would not work. But I am exhausted, dehydrated, achy, filthy, hungry, sleepy, and cranky so comment at your own risk, haha.

Pugsy and John, much obliged for the encouraging words, I feel at home on the range here. Thoughts welcome on progress. Oh... thats right you wanted pics and I wanted advice...zzzzzzz










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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post


WOW!

Brian
Quoting this again, Brian... because I gotta say that Daffy's bill gags were possibly the best thing Warner Bros ever did. There is nothing they did not do to that duck's bill! But he deserved everything he got.

A cartoon sounds good, for winding down today. Whew.
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:07 PM
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I'd say that first piece should end up in the scrap pile. This is standard procedure on a first low crown attempt.. There are highs and lows all over it. You got a shrinking disc? Maybe try taking down some of the highs to get it under control. If it's going to be a door skin, cut it down so it's about 2" bigger all around to help get control over it.


Or, just chuck it.
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:19 PM
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I promise you. Your first attempt a a skin is every bot as good as my first one was.

From just looking at the pictures, I think you have wheeled to close to the edges of your panel. You need to leave an inch or so around the parameter so the panel is forced to grow up instead of out.

If you wheel the edges they will stretch much more easily than the center and you will loose control of your shape. That is why it is recommended to make your panel an inch or so larger than it needs to be. The border constrains the panels growth forcing it to take shape upward. Once you are done shaping the panel, trim the panel to shape getting rid of the border in the process.

Think of your panel as a pie crust. If you roll it everywhere, it will just get bigger but still be flat. If you just mash an area in the middle you are going to end up with a bubble or domed shape. It can only go up.

John
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:28 PM
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Thanks. The metal will get used for something some day. I am trying not to form an opinion on whether or not to order skins, and fear that a second attempt is out of the question. Probably would not go much better. The only sad thing would be if this discourages boss man from taking fab jobs. I should try to fix the roller I guess, but the manual strongly advises that owners do not touch because theres so much injury potential and liability. The wheel HF currently sells is the same except the problem release lever arrangement appears to have changed. Chances are, it will just go back to gathering dust mostly. If I cut a skin sized piece, fixed the wheel and reran all Lazze's vids there might be a chance. It is wierd, guys at work often say the things I do are bad ***. I have to shake my head because its so relative. If I went to the shaping forum for help it would be a joke. Anywhere between joker and bad boy is fine for me and whatever path is chosen in this case, I'm in.
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:35 PM
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Remember, you asked

One other thought. When you start a panel bend it so one curve is already in it. For example bend the panel so it curves and fits the door top to bottom. Then wheel the panel so the center grows upward. By keeping the vertical curve consistsnt and growing the panel the edges will settle down on the panel as the center grows up. As the panel gets close you can check for low spots and gently wheeling them up. When there are no more low spots your panel will fit.

Be cautious of creating high spots because they are very difficult to correct. With the exception of heat shrinking or a shrinking disc, the only way to correct a high spot is to raise everything that is not the high spot.....not easily done.

Hang in there. It is a fascinating machine and a great skill to learn. Just remember, You are starting out working on a low crown panel and they are the hardest, not the easiest.

Good luck with which ever way you go as far as,buying the panels or making them.

John
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
Thanks. The metal will get used for something some day. I am trying not to form an opinion on whether or not to order skins, and fear that a second attempt is out of the question. Probably would not go much better. The only sad thing would be if this discourages boss man from taking fab jobs. I should try to fix the roller I guess, but the manual strongly advises that owners do not touch because theres so much injury potential and liability. The wheel HF currently sells is the same except the problem release lever arrangement appears to have changed. Chances are, it will just go back to gathering dust mostly. If I cut a skin sized piece, fixed the wheel and reran all Lazze's vids there might be a chance. It is wierd, guys at work often say the things I do are bad ***. I have to shake my head because its so relative. If I went to the shaping forum for help it would be a joke. Anywhere between joker and bad boy is fine for me and whatever path is chosen in this case, I'm in.
You posted this while I was typing my last post. I can really understand your frustration. It is hard to develope a skill on somebody else's nickel but it will come together for you if you get the oportunity to gain some experience. I hope we haven't sounded too negative. I don't mean it to be, I promise.

John
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
I promise you. Your first attempt a a skin is every bot as good as my first one was.

From just looking at the pictures, I think you have wheeled to close to the edges of your panel. You need to leave an inch or so around the parameter so the panel is forced to grow up instead of out.

If you wheel the edges they will stretch much more easily than the center and you will loose control of your shape. That is why it is recommended to make your panel an inch or so larger than it needs to be. The border constrains the panels growth forcing it to take shape upward. Once you are done shaping the panel, trim the panel to shape getting rid of the border in the process.

Think of your panel as a pie crust. If you roll it everywhere, it will just get bigger but still be flat. If you just mash an area in the middle you are going to end up with a bubble or domed shape. It can only go up.

John
I do understand this. What I encountered was that after putting a slight crown longways, I went for crown vertically and could produce nothing. No matter what I tried, the top edge of the panel stayed dead flat. Darndest thing I ever seen. I began to get somewhere with that around quitting time, and thought that for a first try I was par. That is, on a four foot course where others would know better than to play. I did wheel off the edges to reduce excess crown, and you can see jaw marks on front and top. I'll stop short of calling today's work an exercise in futility but I pushed really hard mentally and physically and all thats likely to come of it is loss. An expensive lesson about what really truly actually great at fab technicians cost.

The back half of the panel might actually be a better candidate for the door skin than the front half. I did not wipe off that end and it looks lumpier due to hand prints and oil.
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
You posted this while I was typing my last post. I can really understand your frustration. It is hard to develope a skill on somebody else's nickel but it will come together for you if you get the oportunity to gain some experience. I hope we haven't sounded too negative. I don't mean it to be, I promise.

John
No worries, and I am still typing but will quit. If you guys weren't frank with me I would not trust you like I do. We are all men here, my moods just show more because I spew more sentences. And interesting content in a steady stream.

I do plan to tell Gary that shapers say toss it and that thats normal. He was awful cool just to give it this go if you ask me.
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  #177 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2018, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
I do understand this. What I encountered was that after putting a slight crown longways, I went for crown vertically and could produce nothing. No matter what I tried, the top edge of the panel stayed dead flat. Darndest thing I ever seen. I began to get somewhere with that around quitting time, and thought that for a first try I was par. That is, on a four foot course where others would know better than to play. I did wheel off the edges to reduce excess crown, and you can see jaw marks on front and top. I'll stop short of calling today's work an exercise in futility but I pushed really hard mentally and physically and all thats likely to come of it is loss. An expensive lesson about what really truly actually great at fab technicians cost.

The back half of the panel might actually be a better candidate for the door skin than the front half. I did not wipe off that end and it looks lumpier due to hand prints and oil.
My first skin was for a 50 Ford rag top. I ran into pretty much the same issues you have. I finally cut the panel in half, layed the two halves together getting rid of the accessive crown and scribed a line on one. I trimmed them to fit, butt welded them together and ended up with a door skin with a seam right down the middle.

Crude for sure but it worked. I had an advantage on you though. I was my own customer. No one to complain to.
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2018, 04:41 AM
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Being on the clock is no way to learn. You should be practicing on your lunch and coffee breaks, ha....


This is what I did to learn welding when I was a wee bit younger....OK, a lotta bit younger.
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  #179 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
Remember, you asked

One other thought. When you start a panel bend it so one curve is already in it. For example bend the panel so it curves and fits the door top to bottom. Then wheel the panel so the center grows upward. By keeping the vertical curve consistsnt and growing the panel the edges will settle down on the panel as the center grows up. As the panel gets close you can check for low spots and gently wheeling them up. When there are no more low spots your panel will fit.

Be cautious of creating high spots because they are very difficult to correct. With the exception of heat shrinking or a shrinking disc, the only way to correct a high spot is to raise everything that is not the high spot.....not easily done.

Hang in there. It is a fascinating machine and a great skill to learn. Just remember, You are starting out working on a low crown panel and they are the hardest, not the easiest.

Good luck with which ever way you go as far as,buying the panels or making them.

John
Would the shorter bend always be the place to start? I am aware of each thng you just mentioned and thanks. I did start with one bend, sounds like it was the wrong one per your example. Trouble I ran into was after I did that, I went to make the second and all that happened is the first bend curled up tighter and the panel became impervious to my efforts. Thought I was going nuts, the top four foot edge went flat and stayed that way despite hours trying to put a curve there, when putting a curve there was the first thing I did. Its been fun but the discussion is probably moot since tha was probably the last time anybody will get to try making a big flat panel. I gave it hell.
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2018, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Being on the clock is no way to learn. You should be practicing on your lunch and coffee breaks, ha....


This is what I did to learn welding when I was a wee bit younger....OK, a lotta bit younger.
Theres not a way I can get in there to practice on my own time, this was it.

We don't have breaks or vacation, and I usually work until the person locking up has been waiting on me to leave for a few minutes. To learn welding, I was given a LeSabre with the uniside replaced, to do the plug welds on it. About a hundred face the floor due to the rocker design. Nobody told me the welder was out of gas. That was horrible and I was over 30 already. I was probably 11 or 12 when Dad put a stick welder in my hand and let me spark it in his riding lawn mower build. He was much cooler much younger.

I don't believe studying fab and shaping intently will raise my pay so why bother? I won't get to fix up another car in my life either so whats the point? I had this side panel idea, sounded OK to us. Tried, failed first try, done. Next please. I'll muddle through like always whether I master the wheel or not.
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