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Old 07-15-2019, 09:07 AM
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Indeed; and I’ll take the blame for derailing the group.

Just have had enough with the bad information.

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Old 07-15-2019, 09:48 AM
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I think GM used larger oil passages on the LT1 engine back in the 90s. Reason was to add cooling to the engine because it was stuck back under the cowl and needed a little help. At idle the oil pressure would drop to darn near zero which upset many of the owners. To counter this GM moved the zero mark on the oil gauge back so that it appeared there was more oil pressure at idle. As far as I know the low oil pressure at idle never hurt anything and the engine was getting flooded with lots of oil.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:55 AM
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Tetraethyl lead (TEL), also spelled tetraethyllead, organometallic compound containing the toxic metal lead that for much of the 20th century was the chief antiknock agent for automotive gasoline, or petrol.
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:25 AM
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The only oil passages I have enlarged was the oil feed holes in the top half of the main bearings. I enlarged those to match the holes in the block. That is an rod bearing oiling improvement you can make especially if you have pre-1972 GM rods without a spit hole in the rod caps.

Reason:
SThe rod bearings receive oil from the main journals. In 1972, when the EPA required that the rod cap spit holes were to be eliminated, that reduced oil flow to the rod bearings, especially at high RPM. The EPA did not care about high RPM reliability. The EPA just did not want the rods to sling oil up on the cylinder walls where it would saturate the cylinder walls with oil and increase emissions. In 1973, after production engines started using no spit hole rods, Chevrolet engines immediately started having cam lobe failures until the factory reduced valve spring pressures in 1974.

After the spit holes were eliminated, Pontiac engines had less of a problem with flat camshafts because the Pontiac camshafts receives plenty of oil from the open lifter valley. You could use flat tappet Cams with high spring pressure in Pontiac engines as long as you had good oil with leaded (ok.. zinc) oil available. Today, a roller cam is necessary with over 120/300 lb. spring pressure if you are using EPA approved motor oils.

The word is still out about flat Cams when using Valvoline ZR1 Off Road Use Motor oil. I will use it the next Chevrolet engine I put together.
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Old 07-15-2019, 02:39 PM
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BTW..... Pontiacs are prone to spun rod bearings if driven like a SB Chevrolet engine. To address that problem on my Pontiac 455 engine, I matched the main bearing holes in the upper half of the main bearings with the main bearing feed holes in the block and I was also using edge orifice solid lifters. The edge orifice lifters redirect oil from the rocker arms to the main bearings. I also used full roller rocker arms with the reduce oil volume from the edge orifice lifters. Hydraulic lifters do not need this modification because by design, hydraulic lifters restrict oil flow to the rocker arms more than solid lifters.

If and when I use a solid lifter flat tappet camshaft in a 1968-up SB Chevrolet engine, I will use restricted pushrods and limited travel hydraulic lifters rather than edge orifice solid lifters and full roller rocker arms. I will still match the main bearing feed holes in the block and bearings. This modification is absolutely necessary on Pontiac engines. Chevrolet engines are not as sensitive to spun rod bearings as Pontiac engines. SB Chevrolet short stroke 350 CI engines, and 3/8” rod bolts used with the 2.100” rod journal Chevrolet cranks have just about eliminated the spun rod bearing problem that was associated with 1967 and earlier SB Chevrolet and all Pontiac engines.

Last edited by MouseFink; 07-15-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:27 PM
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Lead-free oils? Huh???????

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:56 PM
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drilling oil passages

You can clean up the rear return oil to the pan, ( some times the block casting are very large and just grind down smooth with a die grinder ). I seen guys run a drill bit to clean up oil passages. (1/4 I think, check size first !!! ) Be careful not all the same size!! A lot of marine racers clean up the oil passages on there engines. You can tap the oil holes and use set screws too.
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55_327 View Post
Lead-free oils? Huh???????

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.
Synthetic oils do not hold lead as conventional oils do.

That is why I still use conventional motor oil in my toys. Real high performance engines must use leaded gasoline and motor oil..

Examples:
Valvoline ZR1 Off Road Motor Oil
VP C12, 108 octane leaded racing gasoline. With up to and including 11.5:1 compression ratio.
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:50 PM
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I found a empty container of Valvoline ZR1 I used a few years ago. It was used in my Pontiac 455. It is Valvoline VR1 (VV205), 10W-30, ZDDP enhanced, API rating SN, mineral base.

Pontiac engines are sensitive to spinning rod bearings, if driven like a Chevrolet, especially if you are using stock rods. No one uses stock rods any longer. Spun rod bearings ceased to happen to my Pontiac engine after I resized the stock no spit hole rods and used ARP bolts. And switched to the Valvoline ZR1 Racing oil shown above.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:58 PM
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I believe you are referring to VR1 Valvoline? This contains ZINC of some form (ZDDP) Not Lead.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:12 PM
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I have used Valvoline 10w-30 All Season or straight 30w Valvoline Racing motor oils since 1969. The Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil became available about 1990 and it was labeled “For Off Road Use Only” in order to produce it with the approval of the nice lady at the EPA. I don’t think Valvoline VR1 has that disclaimer on the containers today.

I switched from GulfPride motor oil to Valvoline Racing Oil in 1969 after listening to the late Pro stock racer and cigar smoker Dick Landy promote the use of VR1 under a shade tree at Green Valley Raceway near Fort Worth Texas. It was a special order product until the mid-1990s and was difficult to find in speed shops or parts stores.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
I found a empty container of Valvoline ZR1 I used a few years ago. It was used in my Pontiac 455. It is Valvoline VR1 (VV205), 10W-30, ZDDP enhanced, API rating SN, mineral base.

Pontiac engines are sensitive to spinning rod bearings, if driven like a Chevrolet, especially if you are using stock rods. No one uses stock rods any longer. Spun rod bearings ceased to happen to my Pontiac engine after I resized the stock no spit hole rods and used ARP bolts. And switched to the Valvoline ZR1 Racing oil shown above.
The propensity for Pontiac engines to spin rod bearings has nothing to do with the oil grade or brand used, nor the presence or lack of 'spit holes" in the rods....the problem is the material the rods are made out of is simply not capable of withstanding the loads placed on the rod if the engine is treated like it was capable of running up the rpm scale like a SBC.
The stock rod bolts play a small contributing factor, which is why ARP rods bolts do help a little, but the big problem is the fact Pontiac chose to make the rods from a CASTING, using cast "Arma-Steel"(basically a better grade of nodular cast iron).
Castings, by their very nature are brittle....a bad quality for a connecting rod as they tend to just fracture when toss load on the rod during overlap gets too high due to over-rpm'ing the engine.(piston going over TDC pushing exhaust out and starting to pull intake fuel mix into the cylinder).
Pontiac only put good forged rods in one engine, the '73-74 Super Duty 455, and dealer sourced parts counter replacements back then carried a near $100/ea price tag, making them a major expense too big for typical performance rebuilds as that price rivaled the cost of a full race H-beam rod like a Carrillo..

That cast rod deal is the reason Pontiac engines all have a 5300-5700 rpm redline from the factory. Treat a Pontiac to SBC or BBC RPM levels and you'll soon find the weak link.

The late 1950's-early 1960's Pontiac V8's have forged rods, but it was a poor quality material and were commonly known as "rubber rods" due to how easily they bent, went out-of-round, or pulled in half. Hot tip back then with these was to send them out for heat treatment, but that didn't add a whole lot of strength, really not any better then the cast rod Pontiac superseded it with.

Smartest move anyone can make rebuilding the Pontiac V8 today is throw the stock rods away and replace them with modern Sportsman style forgings like Eagle SIR or similar(RPM International is another.)

Just a little Pontiac muscle history for you guys.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink View Post
Synthetic oils do not hold lead as conventional oils do.

That is why I still use conventional motor oil in my toys. Real high performance engines must use leaded gasoline and motor oil..

Examples:
Valvoline ZR1 Off Road Motor Oil
VP C12, 108 octane leaded racing gasoline. With up to and including 11.5:1 compression ratio.

Lead in oil as a lead soap or colloidal lead? The stearate lead soap as an EP additive is so steam punk I thought that was gone from lubricating oil somewhere in the 1950's replaced by ZDDP or some similar concoction.



A colloidal lead oil additive was patented in the 1970's but I never heard much about it, I figured given those times it didn't gain any traction as an oil additive?


Most you hear about lead in oil these days is as bearing wear contamination.


Can you share some insight on the use of lead as an EP component or friction reducer in Valvoline or any one else's engine oil?


Bogie
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2019, 07:46 AM
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from bogie's No 10 post

"It used to fouled spark plugs quickly typically needing to be cleaned and regapped at about 5000 miles and replaced at 10,000 intervals. It did this to the back side of valves as well."

We used to pull the heads a couple times a year and remove the build up on the valves using a wire wheel on a bench grinder, not using a respirator, it smelled funny, We had a spark plug clean that all the buddies used, but back then you "rode without a helmet, drank water from a hose, Etc."
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2019, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale View Post
"It used to fouled spark plugs quickly typically needing to be cleaned and regapped at about 5000 miles and replaced at 10,000 intervals. It did this to the back side of valves as well."

We used to pull the heads a couple times a year and remove the build up on the valves using a wire wheel on a bench grinder, not using a respirator, it smelled funny, We had a spark plug clean that all the buddies used, but back then you "rode without a helmet, drank water from a hose, Etc."

Amen!



Don't forget cleaning asbestos brake lining dust with compressed air while breathing in that fog. Then taking a cigarette break during and between jobs. Amazing anyone survived.


Then came the do gooders, they kill fun faster than pollution kills people. My paternal grandfather hated those kind of people so much that even in his sleep he'd mutter "damn blue-noses". But during Prohibition he and his brothers ran alcohol, so they weren't on good terms with reformers nor the police.



Bogie
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