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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2018, 06:09 PM
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All kinds of double posting going on. Typically a no-no on forums, so I do apologize, but I can't figure out how to edit on this forum. At least from Tapatalk.

Anyway, I just thought I measure the bolt hole distance to the rear edge of the trunk lid for the spoiler. Sure enough, the PS is 5mm further in from the edge than the DS, so the mate between PS trunk spoiler and PS quarter spoiler is way off. Elongiating the hole back that far and filling the old hole would mean they'd be off by about 1mm, so I could probably just elongiate the hole 6mm and fix the whopping majority of this discrepancy between the 2.

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2018, 06:57 PM
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Everybody has to move the holes a bajillion times, but usually only one or two holes per piece. I say don't shift the center portion of the spoiler if it fits the lid. Do everything to the extensions and quarters and leave the lid alone as much as possible. Because if shown with trunk open, lid and spoiler edge are visible. Nobody's quarters match perfect over the tail lights, thats why the spoiler is shaped the way it is. Doing some fiberglass work on the extensions and flares is par for the F body course. Pic hunt after awhile for the method I used.

As to your metal shaping question, I'll tackle that a little later too if need be. Thats one that would be answered best by some of the guys who I don't know if they still read this thread. Bends such as you are asking about are something I have been doing by tipping with an english wheel. If I made them in metal there would be four pieces for the center and each end would be 3 or 5 depending on how it went. I want to do some other stuff before dark though, peace.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2018, 06:59 PM
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Have you tried accessing it using just a browser and telling it "request desktop site" or whatever? Functions best for me.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:59 PM
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Tried the web view and still couldn't find an edit button.

Can you share a pic or link to.thr ripping dies your talking about. I thiought there were only tipping dies on Bea's rollers

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Old 07-21-2018, 09:16 PM
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I've heard here of guys using a skateboard wheel and washer for distinct bends but with the e wheel I'm just using wheels that came with it. I have a build thread in this same forum now and theres a rough example there. I gotta go get some Pontiaction, think I just fixed my ride so off I go for a spin. Back later with wider grin, to explain. Maybe tomorrow.

I don't have any other advice about the site, but each device I've used has a different set of quirks with it. Workarounds are how I exist, lol. But I'm getting it done.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2018, 08:53 AM
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About making flares and spoiler hug the body tightly... found pics but they don't explain any better than a verbal explanation. Got deja vu like we went there already too.

I put down masking tape on the body edge to edge, no overlap. Two layers. Modified flare shapes to fit altered wheel openings. When the reshaped flares' edges reached a point of having no more than about 1/16" gap, visually, as consistent as was practical by lots of taking it off, sanding or adding edge, putting back on... then I prepared for and applied filler around the flare edge quickly and immediately bolted the part on so the filler dried with no gap. Then it was a matter of blocking the part's face out and going for a thin but consistent edge radius.

I have not heard of anyone else tipping with an english wheel. Maybe its just called something else when you do that. The skateboard wheel and washer thing is on a bead roller and I have tipped using that too. Using stepping dies (with one backwards sometimes) or the large round bead die. Metal shaping is a broad field with lots of extreme perfectionists who its pointless to try to emulate for car bodies, IMHO. I may never advance past novice and am certainly not fit to advise. I'll have to study your spoiler with numbers for a few to comment on that and like I said I'm not really the guy who would know the best way. As I gain experience I find myself exploring the versatility of those two wheeled tools and leaving the shrinker / stretcher alone. Because sheetmetal of a consistent thickness warps less (or at least more controllably) due to heat.

But y'know... if you were to make a metal one and blend it in... you are totally at liberty to change the shape. Like making it taller with a sharp edge on top. A manly metal man might see about making a whole new lid skin, one piece with spoiler included. And the ends would be all done the same way and coated inside before installing the quarter. At least that would make it a maximum challenge. If thats what you're in it for.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2018, 03:28 PM
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Hey guys. It's been awhile. I haven't touched the car since I last posted right here. Been really busy with a lot of other projects.

Anyway, I have this week off with Christmas and New year's. I hope to get some more time on the car between all the million Christmas parties I have.

I just spent an hour or so re-familiarizing myself with where I am at, reading over this thread's last several posts, and putting the spoiler on as was suggested. I put the center piece on so it fit good. I made the quarter pieces of the spoiler match it. By shifting them around in the holes that are already there (had to open 1 up on the DS a real little bit with a carbide burr) I have achieved these results. Across the top of the spoiler everything looks great. Gaps between the 3 pieces are even similar and fairly uniform at around .2". I think I can take material away or add a little to make these interfaces work together. What medai do I use? Mesh? Bondo doesn't seem like a good idea.

I still hate the bottom of the quarter pieces though. They're way off the car. I think the solution is to modify the pieces. This entails cutting up the bottom a bit or just adding more material. They're glass, so this just means I have to do some fiberglass forming I guess? Someone detailed a Bondo method a couple posts up that might work too.

I'm also wondering if I can elongiate the holes sideways (width wise for the car) and push the pieces inward. This will close the gap between the quarter spoiler pieces and the decklid piece. It will make the quarter spoiler pieces portrude out over the deck lid/quarter gap, so I would have to remove material on the inside face that goes up against the side of the decklid spoiler from the quarter spoilers. This will be my first. See striped quarter spoiler piece for where I need to remove. I'd then have to reconstruct this face.



Next issue: gap between the underside of the deck lid and the weather seal is massive. Like 15mm. Everything off the floor pan measures about spot on with the trunk to gutter measurements on my 70 bird and 77 ta donor car though. Very confusing. I was gonna jack it up inside until the seal was good and then put a punch of screws in place to get it to stay there. Thoughts?





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Last edited by Schroeder; 12-23-2018 at 03:43 PM.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2018, 04:03 PM
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Looks like I am out of time to edit my last post, so I have to double post again.

I have previously used my 70's old, functional weather seal to check if the deck lid was sealing. I checked with the new unit I got in since doing the checks months back. Holy crap? Big difference. The 70's in smashed down much more. The new seal contacts everywhere. There still are a few spots I'd like to contact better, but I think the problem areas can be corrected from the inside of the trunk with a few whacks from a hammer.

The difference in seals still seams to suggest that the 70 DOES have a tighter gap between the trunk gutters and underside of this 77 though because the 70 seal holds water out of its trunk when I wash it.

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Old 03-10-2019, 02:27 PM
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I'm trying to get back into my car after a long time off. The next logical step seems to be putting the roof skin on. I'm wondering what anti-flutter "glue" or epoxy I should be using between the roof skin and the inner roof structure. Yes, I have done Google searches. Guys have asked this question and seem to get all sort of "makeshift" answers depending on where they ask. It's like there isn't a a product designed specifically for this job.

One guy on nastyz28 said he used windshield seam sealer/glue because it holds tight and remains flexible in the blazing heat. I agree with his assessment, and that's what I'm leaning towards now. I thought I'd ask you gurus what you use before proceeding though.

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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2019, 04:20 PM
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This is the closest thing you'll find to a product designed specifically for this job-

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...3193646&rt=rud

On the other hand, I don't like two part products for that and had a favorite seam sealer back in my day but I don't think they make it anymore. I am no longer current.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2019, 08:53 PM
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same for door skin intrusion beams. Use 1k seam sealer, AKA The Burito gun/ seam sealer. It stays pliable and although it does shrink it won't suck up the skin.
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
I'm trying to get back into my car after a long time off. The next logical step seems to be putting the roof skin on. I'm wondering what anti-flutter "glue" or epoxy I should be using between the roof skin and the inner roof structure. Yes, I have done Google searches. Guys have asked this question and seem to get all sort of "makeshift" answers depending on where they ask. It's like there isn't a a product designed specifically for this job.

One guy on nastyz28 said he used windshield seam sealer/glue because it holds tight and remains flexible in the blazing heat. I agree with his assessment, and that's what I'm leaning towards now. I thought I'd ask you gurus what you use before proceeding though.

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NO NOT use a "seam sealer" or God forbid urethane window sealer! HOLY CRAP that is a HORRID mistake! There may be one that works and it doesn't completely harden, but I have never seen it.

OMG Window urethane makes the glass a "structural" part of the car for goodness sakes, THAT is how solid it cures! It's not 2k so it doesn't kick and cure in minutes, it takes days to fully cure so you could use it on a car and paint the car and deliver it and it looks fine. Then a few weeks down the road be able to see where every one of those blobs of urethane were applied! On a roof, that is a large panel and you WILL see it! Especially if the color is dark, you WILL see it on the outside of the car!

Use the product that is designed for it, the product that the manufactures of cars like GM Ford, Honda and the like tell you to use, use a "flexible foam" like this one.
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/3m-...3-p-10858.aspx

By the way, ask me how I know this! Yep, done it, years ago, ONCE that is all it took for me never to make that mistake again!

Brian
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
NO NOT use a "seam sealer" or God forbid urethane window sealer! HOLY CRAP that is a HORRID mistake! There may be one that works and it doesn't completely harden, but I have never seen it.

OMG Window urethane makes the glass a "structural" part of the car for goodness sakes, THAT is how solid it cures! It's not 2k so it doesn't kick and cure in minutes, it takes days to fully cure so you could use it on a car and paint the car and deliver it and it looks fine. Then a few weeks down the road be able to see where every one of those blobs of urethane were applied! On a roof, that is a large panel and you WILL see it! Especially if the color is dark, you WILL see it on the outside of the car!

Use the product that is designed for it, the product that the manufactures of cars like GM Ford, Honda and the like tell you to use, use a "flexible foam" like this one.
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/3m-...3-p-10858.aspx

By the way, ask me how I know this! Yep, done it, years ago, ONCE that is all it took for me never to make that mistake again!

Brian
I linked the same product as you. The flexible foam 3M had when I was in collision repair would cause problems like you mentioned and I don't know if this one is different. The mistake I see people make is for example letting even just seam sealer dots on an intrusion beam set up with the skinned door face down on a stand. But a nice flexible urethane uncatalyzed product such as 3M's sprayable seam sealer works fine on door intrusion beams behind a new skin when used right. Schroeder may have seen mention of the obsolete 3M Hood Flutter Repair Kit and thought there should still be a product named that. If he uses the foam we linked, "use sparingly" would be my advice.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 08:36 AM
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I have never seen an issue with the foam, its designed to do just that, support it a little but still have "give." Personally when doing door skins I don't remove the foam, I cut it off with a razor, then remove the skin and then I do put a dab of urethane seam sealer over that foam to bond it back to the new skin. But it's not attached to the beam as that could very easily cause a problem. With everything we know after doing it for years can the urethane work, yep, but just one mistake, one thing, and you have "ghost dents" on the panel because of it.

I have never ever seen an issue with the foam.

Brian
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:31 AM
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The 3M pillar foam or flexible foam that I believe was superceded by the grey stuff we linked had a green label, was tan in color and sat up fast with a great deal of heat which I had seen create trouble on a cab corner. Not to mention the ghost dent, this was a tad of warpage too. That product was difficult to avoid ruining the whole cartridge after first use because of the mess changing tips. You had to use the given plug, could not just leave a used nozzle on or the whole tube would kick off. Wouldn't keep for long.

Windshield urethane adhesive is not to be confused with urethane seam sealer which yes works great on top of existing foam on door skin jobs. Thats what I said too, we agree.

I however have not used the product we linked. But if I did today, I would do so sparingly. Actually, for a Trans Am roof thats completely double walled there may be a foam tape that would be perfect for the job. Just a thought.
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