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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2016, 06:07 AM
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Doing some more reading, I came across this article:

Eight Budget Small Block Chevy Heads Tested - Car Craft Magazine

having priced the parts up (with gaskets, timing chain etc), It comes out quite a bit cheaper than the Edelbrock package and claims to be over 400hp with this head/cam combo:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-162109

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-1105

Anyone see a problem pairing these two together?

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2016, 07:10 AM
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That head/cam combo with proper supporting parts,(intake,carb,exhaust,compression)will get you 400 HP in a well built 350.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben17484 View Post
Doing some more reading, I came across this article:

Eight Budget Small Block Chevy Heads Tested - Car Craft Magazine

having priced the parts up (with gaskets, timing chain etc), It comes out quite a bit cheaper than the Edelbrock package and claims to be over 400hp with this head/cam combo:

Summit Racing« 62cc Aluminum Cylinder Heads for Small Chevy SUM-162109 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Summit Racing« Classic Camshafts SUM-1105 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Anyone see a problem pairing these two together?
No problem pairing them, cam is the same as what is in the Summit kit.

The only thing I can see to maybe worry about is the fact the heads are angle spark plug. Depending on what you are putting it in you may have a hard time finding headers that will clear angle plugs and that don't cost a bunch. Most of the lower budget headers don't clear angled spark plugs and you have to step into a higher cost line-up to get those that will clear.

What are you putting this engine into??
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:10 AM
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It will be going in to my MK2 Zephyr (english car):

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It's got a 283 SBC in it at the moment, so should be a straight swap. I'll be moving across the Edelbrock 1406 Carb and intake.

How much more are headers for headers that will go with angled spark plugs?

Another potentially stupid question - If my block is over bored 0.030, do I need a larger head gasket? I was looking at this set:

Fel-Pro Gasket Kit Sets KS2600 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Would they work?

Thanks again for all the help guys, I really appreciate it.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2016, 09:33 AM
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Head gaskets for any given engine normally have a gasket bore size large enough to cover any concievable block overbore size. The set you've picked has a 4.166" gasket bore, so your fine there.

Typically headers that fit angle plugs are twice the price of standard offerings, but it also depends on the application. common sets like Camaro, Nova or Chevelle often aren't too much more, but then it depends on primary tube diameter and if it is considered a "race" header by the manufacturer.

In your case, you have an uncommon application, there is probably no off-the-shelf angle plug header, unless you are currently using a header that is common for some other application.

Custom headers, if you need to go that route, are $750-$1500 here in the USA
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2016, 11:59 AM
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I'd ask you to back up a step and tell us, or show us, what your 283 setup is in more detail. If you have a Performer RPM intake and carb and some decent headers or manifolds already; since you're in the UK perhaps we can reuse them. Same goes for the accessory brackets and the oilpan. We should do what we can to allow you to basically insert the 5.7 right in place of the 4.6L.

I might consider a retro-fit roller cam if your engine is not roller cam capable. If a roller cam isn't in the cards for you; I'd strongly consider avoiding the "fast ramp" type hydraulic flat tappets as Bogie mentioned briefly. An older style HFT cam may not ring the bell at 400 ponies, but it'll make 380 with a much longer life for the valvetrain.

Last question from me; What style are your engine mounts? "Front mounts" or "Side mounts"? 283s are normally front mounts, 350s are side mounts.

For me; you can't beat a 268HE cam, D-Dish pistons and a modern head with proper attention to compression ratio. You'll want a different torque converter of course (if automatic equipped).

Dont forget that your chassis, cooling system, BRAKES!, rear axle and transmission have to now handle basically twice the power of your 283
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2016, 03:41 AM
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I've quite a bit of room in the engine bay and my dad also has a friend who works for a custom exhaust builders, so hopefully getting a set of headers that fit angled plugs wont be too problematic.

Some shots of the engine bay:

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The 283 I currently have has a Edelbrock Performer 1406 Carb and intake. I recently rebuilt the carb so I know that's in good condition. I've no headers at the moment though, just standard exhaust manifold. I'd like to reuse as much as possible from the old engine ancillary wise, but only if they aren't going to hinder the performance. I got an oil pan with the 350 when I bought it. The distributor I believe is an HEI and the transmission is a 200-4R.
I believe the mounts are side mounts (I keep the car at my parents so can't pop out and check).

How would i know If my engine is roller cam compatible? Would that mean not going for the cam I'd spotted then: Summit Racing« Classic Camshafts SUM-1105 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
?

With regards to the setup of the rest of the car to take the power, I've got large vented and drilled discs paired with 4 pot Toyota Hilux calipers on the front and am looking at converting a Volvo axle to go on the back (the chevy and ford axles cost a bomb over here). It already has a larger radiator, but I may need to add a fan for when sitting in traffic.

Cheers,
Ben
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2016, 06:29 AM
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Wow,thats a nice car. I would keep it as a cruiser. I would not want a lumpy cam in it. Do you feel the 283 is not powerful enough?

what do you have for 350 parts so far? The 283 is a long time ago pre "factory" roller cam. You buy what is called a retro fit roller cam,no big deal. What is your budget,and import taxes like?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2016, 08:15 AM
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Need to know pistons and deck height before talking about any top end parts.

The more power you build, the more the driveability and fuel mileage suffers. Plus the more you need to upgrade transmission, cooling, rear end.

If your rear main seal is a two piece seal inside the rear main cap, then it is definitely not a roller cam block. If it is one piece seal outside the rear main cap, then maybe yes and maybe no on the OEM roller cam. Need number on the pad on block in front of the passenger cylinder head. If none present, the block may have been decked.

OEM roller cam blocks have built in provisions to prevent lifters from rotating. If the provisions are there, you can go with the OEM type roller cam and lifters. If the provisions are not there then you would need a retrofit roller cam and lifters if a roller is what you want.

I'm going to recommend a complete 333HP 350 Engine from Chevrolet Performance for your particular street vehicle. Brand new everything including intake, distributor, and 670 Holley carb. $3700 in the USA. And you get a warranty. Should be well mannered plus a good base for any future upgrades. This is an OEM roller cam block with 1-piece rear main and Vortec heads. But comes with a flat tappet cam.

Chevrolet Performance 19210008, Chevrolet Performance 350 HO Deluxe 350ci/333HP Engine | Chevrolet Performance

Last edited by 2001Blazer4x4; 04-22-2016 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
Wow,thats a nice car. I would keep it as a cruiser. I would not want a lumpy cam in it. Do you feel the 283 is not powerful enough?

what do you have for 350 parts so far? The 283 is a long time ago pre "factory" roller cam. You buy what is called a retro fit roller cam,no big deal. What is your budget,and import taxes like?
Thanks, I like it!
I want a fast street car thats still nice to take a on a long cruise.
The 350 parts I have so far are:
350 block +0.030
Crank,
Con Rods,
Oil Pan,

I've already bought this bottom end rebuild kit:

Summit Racing« Chevy 350 Engine Kits SUM-SBCKIT1-300 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

My shopping list looks like this:

Summit Racing« 62cc Aluminum Cylinder Heads for Small Chevy SUM-162109 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing -- Heads
Summit Racing« Classic Camshafts SUM-1105 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing -- Cam
Fel-Pro Gasket Kit Sets KS2600 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing -- Gasket Set
Trick Flow« Cylinder Head Bolt Kits TFS-92000 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing -- Cylinder Head bolts
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7800 -- Timing Chain

I still need to add a few bits and pieces to that list obviously.

Would this kit and combo give me a fast streetable car that's still nice to drive?

Cheers,
Ben
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001Blazer4x4 View Post
Need to know pistons and deck height before talking about any top end parts.

The more power you build, the more the driveability and fuel mileage suffers. Plus the more you need to upgrade transmission, cooling, rear end.

If your rear main seal is a two piece seal inside the rear main cap, then it is definitely not a roller cam block. If it is one piece seal outside the rear main cap, then maybe yes and maybe no on the OEM roller cam. Need number on the pad on block in front of the passenger cylinder head. If none present, the block may have been decked.

OEM roller cam blocks have built in provisions to prevent lifters from rotating. If the provisions are there, you can go with the OEM type roller cam and lifters. If the provisions are not there then you would need a retrofit roller cam and lifters if a roller is what you want.

I'm going to recommend a complete 333HP 350 Engine from Chevrolet Performance for your particular street vehicle. Brand new everything including intake, distributor, and 670 Holley carb. $3700 in the USA. And you get a warranty. Should be well mannered plus a good base for any future upgrades. This is an OEM roller cam block with 1-piece rear main and Vortec heads. But comes with a flat tappet cam.

Chevrolet Performance 19210008, Chevrolet Performance 350 HO Deluxe 350ci/333HP Engine | Chevrolet Performance
The number on the block is: 10066036 which I believe makes it a mexican reproduction. It is a one piece rear main though. Does that help?
Part of this process is to build an engine with my dad and learn, so that's why I've not gone for a crate motor.
I want a drivable fast street car. I've no intention of taking this down a drag strip or going ridiculously high speeds. I want a fast off the line street car that's fun to drive.
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
Wow,thats a nice car. I would keep it as a cruiser. I would not want a lumpy cam in it. Do you feel the 283 is not powerful enough?

what do you have for 350 parts so far? The 283 is a long time ago pre "factory" roller cam. You buy what is called a retro fit roller cam,no big deal. What is your budget,and import taxes like?
Sorry, I didn't answer all of your questions.
I've no history on the 283 as it was in the car when I bought it. I get the impression that the guy that built the car did it with only parts that were easily available and the 283 was a cheap, high mileage motor. It's very slow and I was advised by guys on here that rebuilding it was a bit of a waste of money when the same money could build a far better 350.
As far as budget goes, I'd set my the $1700 Edelbrock kit (which I know won't be getting), so I don't want to go higher than that.
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben17484 View Post
The number on the block is: 10066036 which I believe makes it a mexican reproduction. It is a one piece rear main though. Does that help?
Part of this process is to build an engine with my dad and learn, so that's why I've not gone for a crate motor.
I want a drivable fast street car. I've no intention of taking this down a drag strip or going ridiculously high speeds. I want a fast off the line street car that's fun to drive.
10066036 is a 2-piece rear main early style block. Yes it is a Mexican crate motor. No it does not fit OEM roller cams - would need retro-roller if reoller cam is desired.

I worry about the parts combo you described. Flat tops with 62cc heads will be quite high compression and quench area will need to be minimized in order to avoid detonation with a mild cam, even on premium gasoline. Block will need to be zero decked to go with that high of compression. Angle plug heads will be a pain to deal with and there is no real advantage to them these days. I think that straight plug 185cc Pro-filers with 64cc chambers are a REALLY good head for not a lot of money. But either way you will need to zero deck the block so the quench is correct with standard gaskets. Use Felpro head gaskets PN 1003 with aluminum heads. Yes they are expensive. Yes you need them with aluminum heads. If you are going to use a flat tappet cam, then you will need to custom order your heads with (lighter) valve springs for a flat tappet cam(usually at no charge), or the cam lobes will be quickly wiped out. Stock prings for most aluminum heads have become those for roller cams. Most dealers like Summit will custom order for you at their reduced price - talk to customer service.

If you want to go flat tappet I would use a Comp Cams XE268H and be sure to buy the Comp cams lifters (not cheapo off-shore flat tappet lifters like the Summit generics). Use the graphite paste cam lube (Isky I believe) as it stays on the lobe and doesn't drip off. I assume you are aware that flat tappet cams are quite unforgiving and lobes will be eaten and metal distributed throughout your entire new engine if wrong springs, or lube, or modern oil, or wrong break-in procedure is used. Flat tappet cams require high ZDDP oil to survive. Modern oils have removed a lot of the ZDDP because it poisons catalytic converters. All of that said, I use a XE274 Comp Cams flat tappet in my 383 with AFR aluminum heads and Brad Penn 10w30 oil, and have had zero problems. I did remove my inner valve springs for initial camshaft breakin.

Top yours off with an Edelbrock Performer manifold, a 670CFM Holley, and a 1 5/8" set of headers you are good to go. Be sure to curve the HEI distributor correctly with the proper advance kit. Souldn't need a high-stall converter will be making plenty of troque even down low.
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Old 04-22-2016, 11:20 PM
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mostly true

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben17484 View Post
Sorry, I didn't answer all of your questions.
I've no history on the 283 as it was in the car when I bought it. I get the impression that the guy that built the car did it with only parts that were easily available and the 283 was a cheap, high mileage motor. It's very slow and I was advised by guys on here that rebuilding it was a bit of a waste of money when the same money could build a far better 350.
As far as budget goes, I'd set my the $1700 Edelbrock kit (which I know won't be getting), so I don't want to go higher than that.
The 350 will make more power and cheaper.

If this is a no rush engine build? Then get a 350 and shop around for some good parts. I would want that car(if it was mine) to have a fairly smooth engine at idle but a huge bite when you stomp on it. I do not recommend a flat tappet hydraulic cam. Talk to EricNova about what to order through competition products.
My idea would be a hydraulic roller cam with 218║ ish intake duration and 226║ ish exhaust duration on a 112║ LSA. Upgraded Vortec heads, look for a used performer rpm intake with a vortec head pattern , 650 CFM carb of choice.Set compression ratio at 9-9 1/4:1. Use the exhaust manifolds you have and a true 2 1/2 dual exhaust
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Old 04-25-2016, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
The 350 will make more power and cheaper.

If this is a no rush engine build? Then get a 350 and shop around for some good parts. I would want that car(if it was mine) to have a fairly smooth engine at idle but a huge bite when you stomp on it. I do not recommend a flat tappet hydraulic cam. Talk to EricNova about what to order through competition products.
My idea would be a hydraulic roller cam with 218║ ish intake duration and 226║ ish exhaust duration on a 112║ LSA. Upgraded Vortec heads, look for a used performer rpm intake with a vortec head pattern , 650 CFM carb of choice.Set compression ratio at 9-9 1/4:1. Use the exhaust manifolds you have and a true 2 1/2 dual exhaust
The plan is to get all of the parts over the next couple of months and build it late July/Aug (potentially later). I've already got the block and bottom end sorted. I'd like to get the heads as soon as possible as I'm trying to buy a few parts each month so as not to have a large one off bill for all of the parts.

You've got it exactly right with how I want the car - nice at idle but screams when you stomp on it. How can I tell from the figures they give me what makes a cam "aggressive" or lumpy (or conversely smooth)?

I read a lot about Vortec heads. They were a factory upgrade weren't they? How do they compare to modern aluminium heads?
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