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-   -   Edelbrock Power Package Top-End Kits 2022 vs 2038 (https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/edelbrock-power-package-top-end-kits-2022-vs-2038-a-430577.html)

ben17484 04-20-2016 05:51 AM

Edelbrock Power Package Top-End Kits 2022 vs 2038
 
Hi All,

I'm building a 350 SBC and am looking at bolt on top end kits.
I've seen that the Edelbrock 2022 and 2038 packages are supposed to be very good. My question is, why is the 2038 package cheaper than the 2022 when the 2038 package is supposed to make more power (338hp vs 315hp)?

The package is completely the same other than the cam.

2022 - Edelbrock Power Package Top-End Kits 2022 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

2038 - Edelbrock Power Package Top-End Kits 2038 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Why wouldn't I go for the 2038 kit? Any ideas?

Cheers,
Ben

vinniekq2 04-20-2016 06:03 AM

I did not see the cam specs?
this was posted on one kit?

Notes: Combo produced 338 hp 389 ft-lbs of torque based on a 350 c.i.d. short block with 9.0:1 compression using Edelbrock's E-Street EFI system. This is the same combination Edelbrock uses on their popular E-Street EFI crate engine.

I also only see a couple dollar difference.

also noted its not much power? only 340 ish hp

ben17484 04-20-2016 07:04 AM

The cam for the 2022 kit is - Edelbrock Performer-Plus Cam and Lifter Kits 2102 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

and the 2038 - Edelbrock Performer-Plus Cam and Lifter Kits 2117 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

340hp should be plenty enough for me. It's only a street car and not too heavy.

2001Blazer4x4 04-20-2016 11:46 AM

I think Vinnie is pointing out that these kits are really not very good. An engine with modern aluminum heads that doesn't make 1HP per CI is pretty much laughable. Why bother with all that expense.

jokerZ71 04-20-2016 12:00 PM

For the very inexperienced guy/girl,or,someone looking for an easy hassle free bolt on,the E'brock kits are hard to beat,but,not really the best choice if you're serious about power.Type & use of the vehicle plays a big part as well. For near,or,the same money,you can spec out a build & make better power & efficiency.Sometimes,for much less.

ben17484 04-20-2016 12:19 PM

I definitely fall in to the category of inexperienced. This is my first build so am looking to make it as simple as possible. The Edelbrock kit is reasonably priced with pretty good reviews and it all bolts straight together.
Does anyone know of a better kit and can anyone see why the supposedly better kit of those two is cheaper?

BogiesAnnex1 04-20-2016 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben17484 (Post 3660313)
I definitely fall in to the category of inexperienced. This is my first build so am looking to make it as simple as possible. The Edelbrock kit is reasonably priced with pretty good reviews and it all bolts straight together.
Does anyone know of a better kit and can anyone see why the supposedly better kit of those two is cheaper?

It isn't a better kit it just has more cam which nets different power, the problem is this cam is really teasing what a stock stall converter wants. And the cam is really rampy, therefore, would be a lot happier with more than the advertised 9 to 1 compression. Not that it doesn't produce power but the cost comes in the gas tank refill rate as the engine just isn't as efficient as it could be.

The carb is too small as well, and I don't like the EPS intake anywhere as well as the RPM.

Bogie

2001Blazer4x4 04-20-2016 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben17484 (Post 3660313)
I definitely fall in to the category of inexperienced. This is my first build so am looking to make it as simple as possible. The Edelbrock kit is reasonably priced with pretty good reviews and it all bolts straight together.
Does anyone know of a better kit and can anyone see why the supposedly better kit of those two is cheaper?

Once again. Edelbrock kits are expensive for what you get! I don't understand why you are stuck on a kit? Reviews on the Internet are not always what they seem. Don't you know there are companies that specialize in giving products good reviews. VERY few experienced people here would use an Edelbrock kit because the resulting performance is sub par. Please keep all of these things in mind. If better is more powerful, then neither kit is good. Most all first gen SBC parts bolt straight together - doesn't mean they are all good choices.

That said, please advise exactly what you have and what your goals are. We can work with that.

jokerZ71 04-20-2016 01:22 PM

Most any 350 with modern head/cam combo can make those HP numbers & do so more efficiently & economically. You would almost have to try to not make 350 HP with any mild modern setup.

ben17484 04-20-2016 01:48 PM

Thanks for the advice guys, maybe a kit isn't the way to go. So far I have 4 bolt main 350 short block bored out 0.030.
I bought a bottom end rebuild kit - http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...-300/overview/
And that's it so far.
Ideally I'd like to go for 350hp out of the 350. Any advice on a top end parts list that won't break the bank (ideally the same or less than the Edelbrock kits)?

bentwings 04-20-2016 01:50 PM

I have the rpm top end kit with the rpm heads. Originally I did run the rpm manifold and 750 Holley carb. This ran nice but without at least a 2500 converter it was tough to live with. The blower changed everything, it runs very smooth and makes serious street power and with the 3000 converter it really jumps off idle.

Now the OP is looking at Performer cams these are good street cams offering nice idle and good power up to 5000 or so. You can use the rpm heads and the combination works well. A 2400 converter brings them to life.

How often do you run up to even 5000? We drove 75 miles over a couple hours today and I never saw more than 3500, then only a couple times.

The choice is max power or easy driving.

BogiesAnnex1 04-20-2016 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben17484 (Post 3660521)
Thanks for the advice guys, maybe a kit isn't the way to go. So far I have 4 bolt main 350 short block bored out 0.030.
I bought a bottom end rebuild kit - Summit Racing® Chevy 350 Engine Kits SUM-SBCKIT1-300 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
And that's it so far.
Ideally I'd like to go for 350hp out of the 350. Any advice on a top end parts list that won't break the bank (ideally the same or less than the Edelbrock kits)?

Back to basics which is the quality of the existing block, crank, and rods.

You said the block has been bored .030 which should indicate that it was cleaned and inspected for cracks before cash was spent on boring and honing. An unknown is the straightness of the main bearing saddles and the fit of the caps. Your machinist should have checked these things. If the mains aren't straight then the block should be run through the align hone process. The head deck needs to be inspected for flatness, waviness, and plane.

The crank also needs crack inspection and bearing journal surfaces inspected and repaired as necessary.

Rods, nothing like old rods you never know about them so they need to checked again for damage in the bearing bore caused by a loose or spun bearing, straightness and twist in the shank, and cracking. Rods are super important, one of these coming out and most if not all the thousands of dollars that went into all the other parts and processes is just gone to the scrap dealer.

The head deck dimension has a large effect of compression the Chevy standard is .025 inch above the piston. If it is at standard with a flat top piston and a gasket of .028 inch thickness and heads with a combustion chamber of 64 ccs then you're looking at a high compression of 10.0 to 1. This would favor a pretty radical cam. If the block is zero decked all other things being the same the compression becomes an even higher 10.6 to 1. By purchasing heads with 76 cc chambers these SCR ratios become 8.8 or 9.3 respectively. This shows that you need to think about the fuel octane you will use, it ties back to cam timing through the yet to be discussed Dynamic Compression Ratio (DCR) which is the result of finding the needed DCR compression ratio to compensate for stroke consumed to the point of intake valve closure. Since you have the bottom end kit with pistons the type they are is going to influence if not dictate the cylinder head combustion chamber volume and camshaft timing.

I know this looks simple going in and sometimes just buying parts and throwing them together works but more usually it's a lot of money spent on something undesirable. To avoid that requires a lot of planning and that involves experience and math. The Crankshaft Coalition found at this site has a lot of information and by coming here you stumbled into a site with a lot of experienced people giving away what is very costly information to obtain if you have to buy it.

So to start with tell us about the block and bottom end as I outlined much earlier. Once we know what were building on we can offer a lot of assistance that will build you a darn good if not great motor.

Bogie

bigmac73 04-20-2016 07:06 PM

did you look at the summit brand of top end kits??Summit owns trick flow now

Summit Racing® Top End Engine Kits for Small Chevy SME-K-375-400 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

ben17484 04-21-2016 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbogie (Post 3660769)
Back to basics which is the quality of the existing block, crank, and rods.

You said the block has been bored .030 which should indicate that it was cleaned and inspected for cracks before cash was spent on boring and honing. An unknown is the straightness of the main bearing saddles and the fit of the caps. Your machinist should have checked these things. If the mains aren't straight then the block should be run through the align hone process. The head deck needs to be inspected for flatness, waviness, and plane.

The crank also needs crack inspection and bearing journal surfaces inspected and repaired as necessary.

Rods, nothing like old rods you never know about them so they need to checked again for damage in the bearing bore caused by a loose or spun bearing, straightness and twist in the shank, and cracking. Rods are super important, one of these coming out and most if not all the thousands of dollars that went into all the other parts and processes is just gone to the scrap dealer.

The head deck dimension has a large effect of compression the Chevy standard is .025 inch above the piston. If it is at standard with a flat top piston and a gasket of .028 inch thickness and heads with a combustion chamber of 64 ccs then you're looking at a high compression of 10.0 to 1. This would favor a pretty radical cam. If the block is zero decked all other things being the same the compression becomes an even higher 10.6 to 1. By purchasing heads with 76 cc chambers these SCR ratios become 8.8 or 9.3 respectively. This shows that you need to think about the fuel octane you will use, it ties back to cam timing through the yet to be discussed Dynamic Compression Ratio (DCR) which is the result of finding the needed DCR compression ratio to compensate for stroke consumed to the point of intake valve closure. Since you have the bottom end kit with pistons the type they are is going to influence if not dictate the cylinder head combustion chamber volume and camshaft timing.

I know this looks simple going in and sometimes just buying parts and throwing them together works but more usually it's a lot of money spent on something undesirable. To avoid that requires a lot of planning and that involves experience and math. The Crankshaft Coalition found at this site has a lot of information and by coming here you stumbled into a site with a lot of experienced people giving away what is very costly information to obtain if you have to buy it.

So to start with tell us about the block and bottom end as I outlined much earlier. Once we know what were building on we can offer a lot of assistance that will build you a darn good if not great motor.

Bogie


Wow - thanks for all the info Bogie, I really appreciate it.
The block was all checked out and is in good condition. I had the block bored and honed to +0.030 so I'm confident of the condition. The crank and rods were inspected at the time also.
I'm not sure of the deck clearance. Is there a way of accurately measuring it without assembling the bottom end? The car will be running on pump gas (in the UK that's 95 RON for regular, 98 for premium).
I don't look at any of this as simple as the more I do my research the more I realise I don't know (which is why I was leaning toward a bolt together kit). I mostly understand the mechanics of it all, but the thing I'm not sure about is how to match the heads with a cam?

My end goal is to get a fast street car that's easy to drive.

ben17484 04-21-2016 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac73 (Post 3660993)

I did, but found some bad reviews of them (the reviews may have been old reviews though, from before Summit owned trick flow). Are they good?


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