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-   -   Which Elgin cam is best for TBI Torque? (https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/elgin-cam-best-tbi-torque-455450.html)

footnbruce 10-21-2016 08:47 PM

Which Elgin cam is best for TBI Torque?
 
I have seen a few Elgin cams mentioned here, If I can't put a GM roller cam/lifters in my 1995 Yukon 5.7 L05 TBI block, I am curious which one of the following three would be the best from idle to 3,000 RPM, (the zone I drive/tow with my Yukon)

CAM# W/1.5 LIFT @.050 Opens Closes Overlap LSA

E-274-S INT .390 194deg -12 BTC 26ABC 40deg 112
E-274-S EXH .410 202deg 36BBC -14ATC

E-860-S INT .404 202deg -14BTC 36ABC 40deg 114.5
E-860-S EXH .415 207deg 37BBC -10ATC

E-1005-P INT .398 194deg -10BTC 24ABC 50deg 112
E-1005-P EXH .420 204deg 39BBC -15ATC

From what I have learned so far (?) the larger LSA of the E-860 is good for TBI, and Torque is best when the cam opens early, again the E-860.

Just wondering if the E-274 is easier to tune with less duration?

What else am I missing?

I appreciate all the input I can get, A new cam is most likely all I can do this winter, I was hoping to go 383 but the money is just not there...

jokerZ71 10-21-2016 09:17 PM

The E 860 would be my pick.It has very similar specs to the LT1 roller cam.We have used that cam quite a bit to upgrade L05's when converting them to roller setups.Being a roller & having more lift, the LT1 cam would make a little more power under the curve, but, not alot on a cam this small.With the wide LSA, I have had them run very well without reprogramming the chip, but, tuning would give alot better results.You will at the very least need to bump the fuel psi up slightly by installing an adjustable fuel psi regulator. You will have problems with lean mixture if you don't.

vinniekq2 10-21-2016 09:26 PM

64nailhead (Jim) is currently hot rodding a TPI system. ask him

jokerZ71 10-21-2016 09:30 PM

Using a 1.6 rocker with that cam would give a little extra as well.This will give you a little more lift, faster action of the cam.

jokerZ71 10-21-2016 10:08 PM

If your willing to look outside of Elgin cams,Lunati has a couple in their VooDoo line that would work well.I'm sure the Elgin is cheaper tho.These run $114. The 1st cam is #10120700.
Adv duration is 250/256
@ .050 duration is 207/213
Lift is .437/.454
LSA/ICL IS 112/108
I used this cam in building my Dad's 93 L05 motor.He ran it for some time on the stock tune & adjusted fuel psi.It ran really good, but, he eventually had a chip burned & it really made some improvements.

The next cam is #10120701.
Specs are
adv duration is 256/262
@ .050 duration is 213/219
Lift is .454/.468
LSA/ICL is 112/108
We never tried this on the stock tune, so, I can't say how well it would work.I'm sure it would have some issues.It made really good power tho.

footnbruce 10-21-2016 10:15 PM

I like the data on the Elgin website, It's interesting how many cams share similar lift/duration, It's hard to find cam cards with degrees opening/closing.

now I hoping somebody can break down the cam opening / duration / overlap and how it applies to a L05 used mainly from Idle to 3,000 rpm.

The E-860-S cam appears to be a L98, 230hp/330tq vette cam from 1986, a vette weighs 3,100# I'm at 4,700# + 2,500# boat!

jokerZ71 10-22-2016 07:58 AM

If you could possibly be able to go to a roller setup, GM's Ramjet cam (#14097395)is a great cam for what you are wanting & cheap for a roller cam.About $160 new, or, you can often find them as new pullouts on Ebay for $125.This cam makes about 400 ft/lb from just over 2000 rpm & maintains that out to 5000 in a Vortec 350. Your L05 would drop off a little sooner due to the heads.It specs at
duration @ .050 = 196/206
Lift = .431/.451
LSA/ICL = 109/109
The 109 LSA on this cam is not a problem as the duration is so short, but, you would need some tuning changes to make it work.It would by far be about the best cam you could choose, if possible. I use this cam in my own truck & i tow approx 5000# with my horses & traler often.The stock cam is not much more than a broomstick& is more geared to emmisions & milage.The low rpm torque on these motors comes from the head design.Any of the cams discussed will give you a performance increase above the stock cam without losing anything on the bottomend. Your current motor is only rated at 210HP & 300 ft/lb.They are all short duration cams.Not high performance racing cams.The heads stop flowing at about .450 lift, going above that doesn't help anything.

jokerZ71 10-22-2016 09:53 AM

Also, if you go to Wallace Racing website, they have a cam degree calculator that works really well & can help you compare timing events between different cams.I can't get the link to post for some reason this morning. Put in the duration, LSA,& ICL to see the timing events.Just keep in mind that if you use @ .050 duration, the timing events given will also be @ .050.

footnbruce 10-22-2016 10:38 AM

I tried to use a dynamic compression calculator from a few links that were posted here when I was toying with a 383 build. I ran into a similar problem in that all the cam mfgs don't publish the "cam card" in a way they can be easily compared... not by me anyway.
Take the GM 3896929 "929" cam for example, it was used in the 8,000+ gvwr L05 and is the same as a Elgin E-274-S, or a Crane 968711 or a Comp Cams 12-105-3.
That being the case, the different mfg websites still don't list the degree of openings in a similar manner... some use .050, some don't. Most don't list the degree of overlap, how is that figure calculated???

would advancing a cam like a 929 show torque increases in the 0-3,000 range as I will never see 4,500?

footnbruce 10-22-2016 12:18 PM

My engine is as strong as it ever was. 130,000 miles, no smoke/noise synthetic oil changes every 5,000 miles since day one. I drive a friends once and a while with 289,000 miles on it, and it still runs good!

The Jeep compression ratio calculator is good, it still needs a figure most cam companies don't provide... advance angle? so if the cam is installed "straight up" I still don't know what the cam mfg has for a "ground in" advance angle....

383 is the way to go no doubt, it's $1,600-2,000 I don't have in the budget.

the stock GM 7,200gvwr L05 cam @ .050: 166/175deg, .382"/.402"lift 112lsa

every cam sold has more lift and duration than that!

jokerZ71 10-22-2016 08:40 PM

You can make some decent gains in your motor.Any of the cams you listed would makes improvement. Some more than others.The L05 & swirl port heads are not a bad combo for what they were designed for & for the use you state, fit the situation.You don't need a bigger high performance head & you definitely don't want to start porting on the swirl ports.The design of the ports & the swirl inducing vane is what makes them work & provide the lowend torque that they do.They actually make slightly more torque than Vortecs up to about 3000 rpm & from there the Vortecs leave them in the dust.Like I said & you already know, the stock cam is very weak & the stock tune leaves alot to be desired.Any of the cams listed above will work much better with other upgrades to support it.Good free flowing exhaust.Proper fuel psi & a reprogrammed chip.That Elgin cam or the smaller Lunati wouldn't have to have a new tune, but, it would make a world of difference in performance after the upgrades.What transmission & rear gears do you have?

footnbruce 10-22-2016 11:07 PM

It has a rebuilt 4L60E, 3.73 gears...k&n filter, 3" cat, 3" cat back system... A heated o2 sensor and A new better flowing 48 state flowmaster combination collector/ cat will be installed in the spring. Timing is bumped 4 degrees.... the roof needs paint, GM Olympic white peeling problem that has been fixed in a few places over the years.

jokerZ71 10-23-2016 08:17 AM

Both of the Lunati cams I listed are in the list from TBI Chips above, along with the Elgin cam you were considering. The duration of any of these cams is not gonna take away any noticeable low rpm torque.I do strongly advise you to invest in a tune tho to bring it all together. However, from my experience, I wouldn't use Bryan Harris from TBI Chips.It would be better if possible to get the chip done locally.Mr. Harris does pretty good on tunes in person, but, the mail order can be hit, or, miss & may require several chips before nailing it down without a data file to work with.
I would also urge you to convert over to the roller cam.You can usually grab the parts needed at a JY for less than $50, or, even sometimes on Ebay.Even picking up the hardware & stock Vortec roller cam would make some decent gains & be relatively cheap.The stock Vortec cam does good with 1.6 rockers also.You would then already be roller ready if & when you do go 383.Just about anything tho will work better than that broomstick stock cam.

footnbruce 10-23-2016 08:37 AM

My original post was just to give me some cam options if the engine block is not roller ready.
I think the stock 96-99 GM roller vortec cam would be great for my use.
Best practice dictates I take the intake off before ordering any parts just to check if it's ready for the roller lifter spider or not.
I found some interesting reading on a corvette forum about GM cams, those guys are all about tweaking using all the stock GM exterior components... Not just installing aftermarket manifolds/headers/heads/carbs to get H.P. improvements.
Reminds me of the kinds of mods we did for motorcycle production road racing.

jokerZ71 10-23-2016 08:56 AM

Yep, pulling the intake 1st would be a good idea.The bosses will be there.They may just need to be drilled/tapped.You want to make sure the top lifter bore surface is machined flat also for the dog bones.
Do you know which block casting you have? The #880 Vortec block was used pretty widely in 95 on some of these motors & i've never seen a #880 block that wasn't roller ready.The #638 block could be either way & anywhere in between.GM Performance also sells a kit that incudes everything except the cam & timing set, including new lifters for about $275.A couple of other places, have their own kits as well, including Summit, but, I have no experience with those.


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