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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas350
BMM "Or Fluid Film!" quoted
Who makes this? Do I need a special application gun? lastly where can I get it?

*I have no idea what fluid film is

Badbob, is the 3M stuff expensive? I need an undercoat gun? I know I can get 3M locally but fear it being 3M its gonna be expensive.

*The rustfighter spray by 3M isn't very expensive, Transtar also makes their own version called Amber Coat

How about the Transtar expanding foam? It claims to seal and waterproof?

I did spray on rubberized undercoat to the entire back side of the new panel.

* the rubberized undercoating may have contaminated your weld

I sand blasted the existing inner panel and adjoining areas and undercoated this also. Excepting the seam overlap and plugweld areas were I used that blasted copperweld. I think the recomended 2 medium coats was to much!

* The weld through coatings are designed for plug welding and if you're after the best welds you can spot blast the plug holes clean before welding

Im sure any heat from welding/grinding probably didnt help the undercoating

I did use the everglass lite over the clean steel, and got my 1st coat of Rage over it. So its probably to late to epoxy primer it

Badbob, should I grind and sand blast it and eprime now? or just go on?
This is my work van So Im not going after the show type job, BUT I do drive this all winter with salt/sand on the roads and want it to last.

* I've been battling rust for about 24 years now and using epoxy as the first step has proven to be the best for a long lasting repair. Not many bodymen will take the time for this added step but it does make a big difference years down the road. If you used Everglass over the weld that also helps but knowing there was pinholes in the welds you better make sure to coat the backside of the weld area with Rustfighter or some other product to keep the filler from absorbing moisture and starting the corrosion process.

So......darnit, now what do I do
Another area to watch is the lower seam, make sure you get good primer and paint coverage and also coat the inside of the seam with cavity wax. Seam seal the seam closed if possible then puddle in the wax and let it fill and seal the inside of the seam. Remember that metal needs to be protected well inside and out for it to last.

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Old 10-11-2008, 12:23 AM
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Fluid Film is the brand name, any body parts/industrial supply should have it. You CAN get a special gun, or get it in aresol cans. It is a waxy, oily fluid product that you simply apply inside inners (quarter panels, inside doors etc), and it flows through.

It displaces water and provides a barrier between the metal and the air, thus keeping those nooks protected.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:33 AM
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Aaron, the undercoat was masked back at the least an inch from all welds. All weld areas were shot with 2 coats of copperweld.

I spent some time today looking everything over more thorough.
When I looked really closely at the weld I could see a tiny gold spot coming thru the pore in the weld, which leads me to believe the copperweld is causing the problem. Too much CW? When I set up the heat and wire speed on scrap for a test everything was almost perfect, but I didnt think to use the CW on this..... next time.......
But I also remember discovering my 14 yr old nephew was messing around with my mig. So I looked that over, the gas difuser was over tightened and the threaded sleeve was stripped out causing the diffuser to be farther from the tip, maybe the sheilding gas was not as effective. Although I had even tried 25 lbs. Picked up a new diffuser today, 10 bucks I hate it when people mess with my tools.
ya live an learn
thanks for the replies
chas
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Old 10-11-2008, 01:00 AM
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Badbob
How about the Transtar expanding foam? It claims to seal and waterproof?
This stuff would be easy to fill the entire cavity, I think it would keep the salt and dirt out, and it claims to be waterproof, what do you think?
Knowing the shape and such of the inside and lack of visability I am not confident I could fully cover the back side if the weld seam with rustfighter.


I sand blasted the existing inner panel and adjoining areas and undercoated this also. Excepting the seam overlap and plugweld areas were I used that blasted copperweld. I think the recomended 2 medium coats was to much!

* The weld through coatings are designed for plug welding and if you're after the best welds you can spot blast the plug holes clean before welding
Ahh, ok that makes sense



* I've been battling rust for about 24 years now and using epoxy as the first step has proven to be the best for a long lasting repair. Not many bodymen will take the time for this added step but it does make a big difference years down the road. If you used Everglass over the weld that also helps but knowing there was pinholes in the welds you better make sure to coat the backside of the weld area with Rustfighter or some other product to keep the filler from absorbing moisture and starting the corrosion process.

Well, I will use the epoxy next time. I always thought filler had to go over bare metal..



Another area to watch is the lower seam, make sure you get good primer and paint coverage and also coat the inside of the seam with cavity wax. Seam seal the seam closed if possible then puddle in the wax and let it fill and seal the inside of the seam. Remember that metal needs to be protected well inside and out for it to last.

The panel was a TriPlus with the ecoat primer.
I will make sure that seam is sealed, what about the weep hole slots?
If I want water sealed out I will have to close em up right? But if water did get in........


Man that transtar foam is sounding better and better, but I would like your opinion.

thanks again!
chas
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Old 10-11-2008, 01:00 PM
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I don't know what this foam does, is, or how it acts, but heres a little thought. If the foam expands, not allowing water to penetrate make SURE it doesnt cover and drain holes. If it does, you'll just get buildup of wet gunk sitting on top of the foam and against panels.
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Old 10-11-2008, 05:45 PM
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BMM, how can the water get in if the entire cavity is (foamed) sealed up? maybe condensation?
something to think on. Maybe its intended more for sound deadening, but sounds like it would work in this case.
wish others would chime in also.......
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Old 10-13-2008, 01:18 PM
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I don't know about your van, but for example...Doors, you simply can not fill it up with foam for obvious reasons. Quarter panel inners, any condensation from the trunk for example, has to go somewhere. It may form on the inners and trickle down.

Foam IS used in alot of newer vehicles for NVH and even a little bit of strengthening...for example I think ford Explorers have foam up the a pillar and windshield frame. I have however never heard of foam used as a water-proof anti-corrosive step. certanley doesn't mean it cant be though, sorry I cant be of any more help.
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas350
BMM, how can the water get in if the entire cavity is (foamed) sealed up? maybe condensation?
something to think on. Maybe its intended more for sound deadening, but sounds like it would work in this case.
wish others would chime in also.......

Be very careful using any expanding foam. The expansion properties with some types are very powerful and will often push a panel out of shape.
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Old 10-14-2008, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas350
m

The panel was a TriPlus with the ecoat primer.
I will make sure that seam is sealed, what about the weep hole slots?
If I want water sealed out I will have to close em up right? But if water did get in........


Man that transtar foam is sounding better and better, but I would like your opinion.

thanks again!
chas
Chas, those weep holes are what caused your corrosion problems, I see it happen on many designs where the factory puts these drains on panels that should have no water flow at all. Here's what happens: those weep holes will collect dust in the seam over time and the dust absorbs moisture and holds it there for rust to form, add roadsalt into the mix and the corrosion happens quicker. In all reality there should be no water flowing through that panel and any condensation should evaporate out the interior so there's really no need for those holes to be there. I plug them shut on every rust repair I do when working these areas and fill the seam with cavity wax and the repairs last forever. Dust will pull moisture like a straw and turn it to mud. Hope that makes sense. I've seen 4wd trucks with extended cab panels and cab corners half full of mud-an extreme example of why those holes should not be there. Doors have water flowing through them every time it rains and need the drain holes-and the water will actually keep the doors clean of dust but the interiors of these panels also need to be coated especially fill the seam with wax or similar.
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:36 PM
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Badbob, those weep holes absolutely caused my rust, the cavity had damp dirt inside. I do live on a dirt road. I will fill them in with seem sealer.
Man I forgot how long body work takes!
chas
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