Getting butt welded sheet metal joints smooth - Page 3 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans Advertise
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2017, 10:28 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
Rod...from a Chrysler?
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: SEAM SEALER
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ON, Canada
Age: 59
Posts: 4,557
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 10,019
Thanked 4,908 Times in 2,717 Posts
Mike, I'll have to disagree. Hobby guys are not in the auto body business.

My answers above are for the original post and the title of this thread.
Get the TIG out and start practicing so you can get smooth butt welded joints.

BTW, the most important part of using the TIG has nothing whatsoever to do with welding.
You will be forced to make your patch panels properly without gaps.
Even with MIG, you are toast if you have huge gaps.

Taking time with fitting panels nicely, no matter the welding type, will be time saved 10 fold.

Most guys rush this and end up paying for it in time wasted trying to get all those cracks and gaps filled. Then they need to work out the oil canning, etc....

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2017, 10:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 317
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post

Most guys rush this and end up paying for it in time wasted trying to get all those cracks and gaps filled. Then they need to work out the oil canning, etc....


Yup. I'm in the "most guys" and that's why I'm here. I've done patches before where I really thought I was meticulous and took my time, but the results were little better than what was shown here. I guess it's something I really, really, really need to practice. The patch fitment with zero gap seems unobtainable for me at the moment.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2017, 10:44 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
Rod...from a Chrysler?
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: SEAM SEALER
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ON, Canada
Age: 59
Posts: 4,557
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 10,019
Thanked 4,908 Times in 2,717 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
Yup. I'm in the "most guys" and that's why I'm here. I've done patches before where I really thought I was meticulous and took my time, but the results were little better than what was shown here. I guess it's something I really, really, really need to practice. The patch fitment with zero gap seems unobtainable for me at the moment.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not unobtainable if you cut less material out and sneak up on it slowly.
This is where you need to spend more time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 07:01 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Mike, I'll have to disagree. Hobby guys are not in the auto body business.

My answers above are for the original post and the title of this thread.
Get the TIG out and start practicing so you can get smooth butt welded joints.

BTW, the most important part of using the TIG has nothing whatsoever to do with welding.
You will be forced to make your patch panels properly without gaps.
Even with MIG, you are toast if you have huge gaps.

Taking time with fitting panels nicely, no matter the welding type, will be time saved 10 fold.

Most guys rush this and end up paying for it in time wasted trying to get all those cracks and gaps filled. Then they need to work out the oil canning, etc....
I'll agree with that, Puggs. Your a great tig welder so let me ask you one question: What did you start welding with? and how long have you been welding. I can tell you didn't just go to HF and pick up a tig a month ago to get welds like that. most likely you've been doing it all your life. Remember back when you started Tigging now try to imagine how tough it would be to learn without someone right there to show you what your doing wrong and adjusting the machine for you. It takes time to learn and a lot more time than mig welding does. Mig welding does a good job Tig is over the top good as far as doing body panels goes and a tig is just not needed for this kind of work.
I believe I already stated that metal and "joint prep" are the most important part of ANY type of welding. Most hobbiests wont have things like a tig and a lot are lucky to have a mig. if they have a mig they are serious hobbiests.
knowing the machine is half the battle especially when you start having trouble.Things like the liner, drive wheels, wire and tip size are all things that will get you a better weld. Basicly Im saying that you CANT jump to Tig until you master the Mig and the weld itself. How are you going to be successful at Tig welding if you don't even know what a good weld looks like?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 07:15 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
Rod...from a Chrysler?
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: SEAM SEALER
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: ON, Canada
Age: 59
Posts: 4,557
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 10,019
Thanked 4,908 Times in 2,717 Posts
I was self taught TIG welding at lunch time at work.
It's actually quite easy.

The reason I finish my welds as I do is because on stainless you cannot leave any divots.

The OP states he already has a TIG. A little shove may get him to dust it off and check it out.

If anyone ever has a question about it, I'm all ears and willing to offer the little bit of theory I know.

And of course, you're correct, fit, fit FIT!!!!!!!
Get them fitting nice and the welds will be better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 07:29 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Not unobtainable if you cut less material out and sneak up on it slowly.
This is where you need to spend more time.
yes absolutely, sneaking up on it is the way to go.
You cant get a perfect fit by measuring. measuring is for the rough fit then you sneak up on it. heres a few pics of what I've been talking about.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01244.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	47.4 KB
ID:	337266   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01243.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	50.0 KB
ID:	337274   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01237.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	61.3 KB
ID:	337282   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01259.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	66.7 KB
ID:	337290   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01271.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	53.6 KB
ID:	337298  


Last edited by deadbodyman; 01-02-2017 at 07:42 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 07:47 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,115 Posts
Pic # 1&2 Shows rough patches, they overlap the panel and are screwed down tight. BTW,I like to epoxy prime all my patches before welding.

Pic#3 Shows Tabs to hold patch and a mig welded patch in jamb

Pic #4 the jamb patch weld ground down not real pretty but it will be getting a thin coat of filler and primer.

Pic #5 Shows an overlapped patch marked with a sharpie for final trim. (sneaking up on it)

Last edited by deadbodyman; 01-02-2017 at 08:05 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 08:15 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,115 Posts
Heres some more pics
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01263.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	58.0 KB
ID:	337354   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01274.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	55.2 KB
ID:	337362   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01276.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	62.8 KB
ID:	337370   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01277.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	61.7 KB
ID:	337378   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01278.jpg
Views:	133
Size:	57.8 KB
ID:	337386  


Last edited by deadbodyman; 01-02-2017 at 08:25 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 08:31 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,115 Posts
Sneaking up on it

Pic#2 wheel arch patch is off so I can cut off bad metal I use my cutoff wheel for this. Taking care to cut on the right side of my line. When I'm done I can still see the sharpie line.

Pic #3 curved lines are a little tougher, this shows the middle is a little tight and needs some trimming it sure is handy to be able to screw the patch on for this kind of work.

Pic #4 Close enough for the Mig. ready to weld.

pic# 5 weld with single spots every few inches cool with air blower about every 3 welds. You don't want the work area to get too hot so take breaks when welding but weld these spots until the whole joint is done. if you don't weld all the way and have spaces between the welds you'll see the joint after painting as a ghost seam.

Last edited by deadbodyman; 01-02-2017 at 08:42 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 08:45 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,115 Posts
I've run out of time but when I get back I'll go over how to grind and dress your welds
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01279.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	59.2 KB
ID:	337402   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01286.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	36.3 KB
ID:	337410   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01287.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	49.0 KB
ID:	337418   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01290.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	55.0 KB
ID:	337426   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01342.jpg
Views:	133
Size:	48.1 KB
ID:	337434  


Last edited by deadbodyman; 01-02-2017 at 08:52 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 09:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 317
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
WOW! Thanks for posting all the pics. Definitely helping me and hopefully others doing similar searches on the internet. Can't wait to see what u have 2 say about grinding and dressing welds. The finished product suggests you have that down to a science.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 09:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 317
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 18
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Btw, I spent my entire Christmas break expanding and mini tub, grinding it, and TIGing the weld shrink zones down. As someone suggested a couple posts ago though, I am going to cut it all out and make a new patch. I guess learning fitment is a slow, painful process when you're not careful. Hopefully it pays big dividends though. You guys have convinced me to take this route as I believe it to be the "right" way to proceed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 10:20 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Age: 61
Posts: 16,221
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6,623
Thanked 7,318 Times in 4,554 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by prpmmp View Post
Hey new here! Will do an introduction later(pressed for time) Here is a thread from another site about butt welds,Its long but great information and explained well by Robert!! Hope this helps! Pete MP&C Shop Projects - The Garage Journal Board
Very good stuff, it's as simple as that!


Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 02:15 PM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
I was self taught TIG welding at lunch time at work.
It's actually quite easy.

The reason I finish my welds as I do is because on stainless you cannot leave any divots.

The OP states he already has a TIG. A little shove may get him to dust it off and check it out.

If anyone ever has a question about it, I'm all ears and willing to offer the little bit of theory I know.

And of course, you're correct, fit, fit FIT!!!!!!!
Get them fitting nice and the welds will be better.
I went to tec school just to learn tig but had to basicly waste the first year doing oxy /act cutting and then arc followed by mig all of which I had been doing for the past 35 years theres things like keeping you tungsten sharp that are ez to learn but take forever to figure out without someone to show you. I cant imagine anyone who has never welded picking up a tig and welding without guidance. I know I couldn't have done it without my welding experience on other types of welding. heck I still cant gas weld with steel rod to save my life and I tried and tried I just cant do it. I had a body shop in Fla. that was in the back of a muffler shop and that's about all they did was gas weld he could weld the top side of a muffler pipe that he couldn't even see just as well as the bottom, I couldn't even gas weld a flat piece of steel on a table. some people have it, some don't. luckily there is no gas welding on cars and welding itself is just a small part of body and paint work.
The most valuable lesson I learned at welding school is I love to weld.....for about 10 min.. after that I pretty much hate it, it took 2 years of school to learn that. I'll never be a welder.
The problem I have with Tig is I cant weld a panel without warping it slightly so instead of warping panel after panel until I get good enough I just stick with the mig and can weld a patch dead center of a hood or roof with absolute Zero warpage and usually just a skim coat of finishing putty and primer finishes it up for paint.
Sorry for all the long posts but its been cold and raining for two days and I don't have anything better to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to deadbodyman For This Useful Post:
123pugsy (01-02-2017)
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2017, 02:18 PM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 59
Posts: 7,950
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 104
Thanked 1,464 Times in 1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
I went to tec school just to learn tig but had to basicly waste the first year doing oxy /act cutting and then arc followed by mig all of which I had been doing for the past 35 years theres things like keeping you tungsten sharp that are ez to learn but take forever to figure out without someone to show you. I cant imagine anyone who has never welded picking up a tig and welding without guidance. I know I couldn't have done it without my welding experience on other types of welding. heck I still cant gas weld with steel rod to save my life and I tried and tried I just cant do it. I had a body shop in Fla. that was in the back of a muffler shop and that's about all they did was gas weld he could weld the top side of a muffler pipe that he couldn't even see just as well as the bottom, I couldn't even gas weld a flat piece of steel on a table. some people have it, some don't. luckily there is no gas welding on cars and welding itself is just a small part of body and paint work.
The most valuable lesson I learned at welding school is I love to weld.....for about 10 min.. after that I pretty much hate it, it took 2 years of school to learn that. I'll never be a welder.
The problem I have with Tig is I cant weld a panel without warping it slightly so instead of warping panel after panel until I get good enough I just stick with the mig and can weld a patch dead center of a hood or roof with absolute Zero warpage and usually just a skim coat of finishing putty and primer finishes it up for paint.
Sorry for all the long posts but its been cold and raining for two days and I don't have anything better to do.
OK, One more question for you Puggs. You say you were self taught but how long ago was that? Your welding looks like you've been doing it for many years. Way past my Tig skills
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sheet metal jltgator Body - Exterior 2 05-30-2013 07:02 AM
sheet metal camarossrs56 Introduce Yourself 4 08-22-2007 07:48 AM
Which way should welded metal warp? modas Body - Exterior 13 10-25-2006 06:34 PM
Help!! Welded sheet metal is warped fordSR Body - Exterior 3 09-29-2005 02:32 PM
Can galvanized sheet metal be MIG welded Slickriffs Body - Exterior 9 09-16-2004 07:19 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.