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Old 05-19-2018, 02:18 PM
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Thanks Eric !!
Brain fade...I completely forgot about AllState Carb....and I've got them on my favorites list

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Old 06-11-2018, 08:53 PM
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I had some fun tuning my Holley Street Avenger 670 SA

My combo is:
350 stock roller bottom end
LT4 Hot Cam
World Products Sportsman II heads
RPM Air Gap intake

Here's where I ended up (looking back at my notes):
- 670 SA stock IFR was 0.027, I drilled it out to 0.031
- 670 SA stock PVCR was 0.05, I drilled it out to 0.058
- Plain spring on vacuum secondaries
- Primaries at 68, secondaries at 76
- 32 squirter, 50cc accelerator pump, brown cam

I had started by messing with the squirter and ended up chasing it in circles without getting it right. I was needing to have the throttle blades open to far. Drilling out the IFR fixed that.

I'm betting someone is going to tell me that's too much squirt. It was over a year ago and I don't really remember why I ended up there. I do know that I used the LM-2 AFR meter and logged WOT, pulls as well as cruise at different RPM's to arrive at these settings. It was a lot of fun... now I just wish I remembered everything I knew back then. Doh!

Here's a pic of the AFR at the end of it:
https://image.ibb.co/e91Wf8/AFR_log.png


Last edited by ssanto; 06-11-2018 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:23 AM
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I am working on a holley street warrior which is in essence a street avenger minus a secondary metering block and center hung fuel bowls but I have all the parts needed to convert it for center hung bowls and bought a secondary metering block and I am taking out the straight leg boosters and installing down leg boosters and installing a quick fuel adjustable vacuum pod.

I use a holley hp custom job for my summer months but for late fall and winter months I am needing a choke carb to use and I store my truck but I still run it once a month to keep things going but awesome job on your carb tune. Your using a 50cc pump with only a 32 shooter is an odd combo as normally the 50 cc pump is for 40 and up size shooters but if it works for you with out being to much then its good as that is all that matters as there is never a rule of this can only be like this etc etc for carb tune as that is why you can adjust things and if yours is excellent then your good regardless of what some might say.

Thanks for sharing
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:57 PM
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I also had a stumble at throttle tip in, or off idle hesitation with my 670 SA. My engine is a 351W with a Comp EX262 cam, Performer intake, stock heads and long tube headers. It is in my 1970 XL, so a big, heavy car. To back up a little, my first issue was with it plugging up all the time, primarily idle circuits. The metering blocks were blistered and flaking and Holley replaced it. New carb made the car driveable enough to manifest the lean stumble at off idle.

What worked for me was going to a smaller squirter, down to a #25 if I remember correctly. The accelerator pump was adjusted to max volume, but the lean stumble was not not enough total fuel, but dumping the fuel too quickly. The big car, with tall rear gears, couldn't get moving and build RPM before the pump shot ran out. The smaller squirter lengthens the time the fuel from the accel pump is delivered over, same volume of fuel over a longer period of time. This made all the difference in the world for my situation, no more lean stumble, hesitation, or anything else. It runs and drives like a dream. I think the stock carb set up may be more for lighter vehicles. Just my experience. FWIW.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:00 AM
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I agree 70xl they are calibrated for light to medium weight vehicles and also really small cam sizes. On a stock small block they seem to be fine out of box with only jetting changes needed on the secondary side to go up a little bigger then 68 which is way to small for the secondary side of it.

I have ran them on a stock 305 all the way up to a 377 cubic inch build and they are great carbs if calibrated right. In my experience on any cam on a small block bigger then 215/[email protected] and a 110 LSA or tighter then you will have problems with the idle circuit and the famous hesitation they are known for. I think that is Holley's number one seller along with the famous 3310 750 cfm and the 1850 600 cfm vacuum secondary carbs.
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:16 PM
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Anyone tried one of these ? Thompson Performance Products From their video it makes it look similar to the spray pattern on Edelbrock's AVS annular discharge. http://www.rodauthority.com/tech-sto...-ii-carburetor

Last edited by JeffB28; 06-18-2018 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:42 AM
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Just to finish off this post on our 670, we have settled on 62 primaries for the 289 as being perfect with 64 probably better for the strip, pump nozzle size had to go way down from 31 stock to 25 or 28 with a dual plane intake...we are still playing with this to get perfect response and may custom drill the 25 to 26 or 27. Running a white or black cam seems close to perfect with this engine which is about right considering the build, we are still tuning with the stopwatch and trying to get that pink cam in there.

It would seem the metering block issue is the core of the problems with these carbs, getting rid of it and all of a sudden standard Holley tuning techniques work as designed and straight forward.

Exhaust smells as it should without having to mask the issue with rich idle mixtures or way off jetting values etc.

Might add we are running 10.5:1 compression with 0.042" quench, 12 degrees of initial and mechanical all in at 3200 with a spring kit in the HEI limited to 36 degrees so a total of 48 degree all in with another 6 from the vac can. No pinging under full load even with a trailer on premium fuel.

I highly recommend you buy an aftermarket metering block and save yourself the hassles, worked for us.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:59 AM
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jeffb28 I watched a few videos that had nothing to do with the thompson plate and they said it made a slight difference and helped. I honestly am considering trying one but have yet to get one but will do so here in the near future when I get around to it. How much of a difference it truly makes I don't know for sure. Sometimes I wonder if its like taking a sugar pill type of a deal and when people put it on they think its better when it actually is not.

If it was that big of a difference I would think holley would have already had those on every carb but who knows for sure. When I get one I will post on how it works which I might get and try out later on this summer when I get my custom holley vacuum secondary built for the fall time and colder weather since i am running a Holley HP which has no choke tower on it for the warm months.

It does seem to have some credibility to it. I also agree with 4jaw you can't go wrong with the quick fuel blocks over the cast factory holley ones as they are made way better and are billet aluminum vs cast zinc of cast aluminum.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:38 PM
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Annular boosters are great for distribution and fine tuning for economy but not really relevant to this discussion.

Mixture dispersion from this style of booster can help on poor manifold designs which have distribution issues or if your running a very large carb such as an 850cfm on a 350 ci engine for example, they pull better on the column of fuel so it can increase response.

All carbs should have them if you ask me, there are no downsides, whether or not you actually increase economy or performance is dependant on a lot of factors but I doubt you would lose anything with the upgrade and only have something to gain.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:40 AM
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Ok did some more research and also from tuning with my own experience here on the vacuum secondary side of a holley street avenger but the same would apply to a holley 600 1850 manual choke model and 80457 electric choke model and a 750 holley 3310 manual choke model and 80508 electric choke model.

There are a few options on the holley vacuum secondary side of things to one can do to improve the function of the secondaries kicking in and when and a lot of time just changing springs helps but is not always right on the spot depending on the engine build and rear gearing and transmission used and vehicle weight and acceleration speed etc.

This information is what I have found from others by reading a lot of different forums and taking down notes and also from tuning with my 96 chevy s10 with a previous 350 small block with dart 180 shp aluminum heads and 219/[email protected] 515/530 lift hydraulic roller lunati voodoo cam with weiand 8150 high rise dual plane intake with turbo 350 and 2200 stall and 3.42 rear gears.

Holley has had two different versions of there secondary vacuum pod and the earlier style as you can see in the photos below had a steel check ball that allowed as a restriction and so the vacuum secondary would not open up to quickly and cause a bog in instances. From my research some people would take it out and by doing so it would always cause the secondary to open up to quickly with lighter springs like the white and yellow and purple in some instances but not always.

Vehicle acceleration and how quick the rpms goes up will make a difference on the effect without the check ball etc. From most parts its best to keep the check ball in place as without it makes to much flow coming in on a lot of situations and makes it activate to quickly and bog.

The newer pods have a little brass restriction inside the pod housing and that is what is used in place of a check ball to restrict the airflow coming in to activate the secondary to open. That style pod used with the factory top even with changing springs to lighter springs such as the white and yellow and purple in many instances people talk about the secondary side still not opening up as fast and respond as good as they would like them to be and no matter what springs they use even on the lightest it seems to never activate as quickly as many would like.

The the upgrade first option is the holley quick change top which you can swap out springs without having to take the housing off. The holley quick change top if you look at it in the picture has a bigger entry way hole size compared to a factory top and will not allow much of a difference in response but will help some over a factory top lid on the newer pod with the brass restriction in it. On the check ball style pod with the check ball in place it performs very similar to the pod with the brass restrictor but if you remove the check ball then it at a lot of times on the lighter springs will activate to quickly.

On my truck with the white spring or yellow it would come on so fast that my truck would almost stall and it would chug for about a few seconds till the boosters started to flow. Even with the purple spring it would come in pretty fast but was border line. For performance nobody wants to use the silver spring as it takes forever to open up and never fully opens on a performance build.

Using the quick change pod on a vacuum hosing pod with the check ball removed can be used in some instances but it would depend on the many variables such as engine size and acceleration etc as well as the carb size and signal coming in on the primary while under load to activate the secondary side.

That is a trial and error. The difference between the pods of the check ball style and the brass restrictor style is the entry patch hole size. On the check ball type pod the hole is .078 and on the pod with the brass restrictor it has a size of .040.

One way to improve the pod with the brass restriction is to drill it bigger which would allow for it to respond more quicker and more better but what size would have to be done with a trial and error and done in small steps. Super chevy did an article on doing that on a build and they drilled it to a bigger size of .065.

In my experience if you drill it to a size getting close to .070 it would be very close to being like the check ball pod without the check ball and would allow to quickly of an air flow signal to come on and cause a little bit of difficulty in tuning wise. Keep reading and you will see where I am coming from. I would say if your going to drill it bigger I would not go bigger then a .060 size.

The thing with the holley quick change or if your using the stock top lid you can't change anything on the incoming signal except if you change the size of the brass restrictor hole or if the check ball style pod by leaving the ball out and that is sort of pain with having to drill out and then end up going to big on the brass restrictor and ruining your pod or having to maybe drill it out and tap it for a brass allen screw so you can drill it to a certain size.

Now the third option and is the best one overall is the quck fuel adjustable pod which on the top lid it has an idle mixture screw which is the same used on holley metering blocks and it allows you to adjust the incoming air signal and on all the quick fuel vacuum housings which you see in the picture below it is the earlier style check ball type pod with no check ball and has a .078 size hole and allows a maximum amount of air flow signal coming in.

You can adjust the rate by turning the screw in to restrict the incoming air or turn it out to allow more flow and it is very sensitive to change compared to the holley brass restrictor pod with a quick change top lid. Just for fun I took the quck fuel top lid and installed it on a holley pod with the brass restrictor at the normal stock size of .040 and it did not really do much better even with the screw all the way out at 2 turns and performed not much different then the holley brass restrictor pod with the holley quick change lid.

If you look on ebay some sellers have the adjustable quick fuel style top lid by itself but not the whole housing and if you happen to buy one and want to get the benefit out of it and you have a holley vacuum pod that has the brass restrictor in it all you have to do is drill it out to .078 and put the quick fuel adjustable top lid on and it will function just as good and the same as a complete quick fuel adjustable housing that they install on all there vacuum secondary carbs.

By using the quick fuel style pod with the adjustable lid I have ready many people by switching over to it from the traditional vacuum pod with the brass restrictor and the holley quick change lid found on all the street avenger carbs that they instantly got a lot more response from the secondary side and could tell the difference and after trying different springs they were to get it to really come on a lot more quickly and respond a lot more faster and with some adjusting to what spring works best for there application and the adjustment of the screw for the proper adjustment of the incoming air signal it would perform ten times better then the regular holley street avenger setup.

The first time I went to tune a holley 670 street avenger I had the original pod on that had the quick change and the brass restrictor and even with the white spring installed it would open but still seemed like it would still leaving some on the table and the secondary would still not open all the way and seemed like it would take almost 3000 rpm to get them to even start.

Changed out to the quick fuel pod with the white spring to start off and wow what a difference. With the adjustment screw out at 1.5 turns which is a good starting point the secondary side would open up so fast that it caused a bog even at just 3/4 throttle opening and half throttle opening going down the highway at 55 mph cruising at 2600 rpm.

If holding the throttle at 2000 rpm and breaking it then letting off at wide open throttle it would hesitate and take about sever seconds of chugging until the boosters finally kicked in so I knew it was way more sensitive as I never had any of that with the holley pod that was on the street avenger.

I tried many adjustments on the screw even to just a 1/4 of a turn and the white spring was just to quick for my application. Tried the yellow spring and it was very sensitive as well and caused some lagging but not a bog but you could still tell it was just a hair to quickly still.

Swapped out to the purple spring and it responded very quickly and with the right adjustment of my screw I got it dialed in and can stomp it in many different ways and no bog and no hesitation but the secondaries will respond quite quickly and open way before 3000 rpm and totally open up the secondary side as to where the holley pod with the quick change never did.

Results will vary on what color spring will work for what build as stated above many factors will affect on what can be used. The pictures below show the differences between them and also so you can see what all I am talking about.

The best upgrade for the secondary side of tuning can be done by one just buying a quick fuel pod for about $30 bucks for the cast one part qft 63-12 or a little more for the one with the billet topper part 63-1.Also below is the topper by itself and I have bought from this guy many times and he is a good seller.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Holley-QFT-...5BpI:rk:2:pf:0
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Last edited by eric32; 11-27-2018 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:59 AM
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Also as a follow up on vacuum secondary tuning if you use a bigger sized carb say a 750 or holley 770 street avenger on a smaller cubic inch build like a mild 350 with mild flowing heads the secondary side might not ever open all the way as its on engine demand and goes by the incoming air velocity that will make the secondaries open and not by just opening up the throttle if its in park.

Sometimes a bigger vacuum secondary carb will not always open up all the way if the engine itself will not use all the cfm rating of the carb. I have even had a stock 305 small block chevy with a holley 600 vacuum secondary 1850 carb never open up the secondaries up all the way as the engine never used the total amount of the cfm rating of the carb. That was even with a spring that would allow the secondary to be open all the way up of a very light spring.

Engine cubic inch size and carb size will change the rate of when the springs will allow the secondary side to open up as well. The chart below is just a guideline.
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:37 PM
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Slow Secondary Check Ball Fix

I had a couple 650 spreadbores with super slow secondaries. My fix, take the check ball out, insert a phillips screwdriver and give it a tap with a hammer to stake the check ball seat. Install the check ball again, put it together and give it a whirl. If it's still too slow and you can't adjust it good enough with the springs, then redo the staking but with a harder tap. It worked like a charm for me on 2 carbs.

Oops! You hit it too hard? Opens too fast? No problem. Just insert the check ball and give it a little wack to seat the ball a little more and slow it down.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:52 AM
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Many of the newer style vacuum secondary carbs have eliminated the little brass tube in the primary bore that provides the vacuum signal to actuate the secondaries that the original Holley VS carbs had in favor of a plain orifice. A lot of the problems people experience with slow or incomplete secondary opening can be resolved by the addition of this tube.

More info here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/raci...tube-t205.html
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:48 AM
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Am running 670 avenger out of box, just changed secondary spring to lighterone, 302 e303 Hyd roller cam, edelBrock perf RPM heads, roller rockers,studgirdle, forged pistons, 2800 stall c4 3.25 gears, all in 65 Falcon Conv. no probs whatsoever, procomp elec dist with vac advance, total timing about 32 degress, plus 6 degrees vac, Maybe I had good luck?? plus getting 21 MPG cruising.
Only thing I know is beware buying use avengers!! Holley had some bad castings a few years ago, carb will look great on outside, but inside will look like flacking cement!!! on main body
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Old 12-14-2018, 10:16 AM
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Ok since it was never posted here on the holley recall date stuff and thanks to carstechguy for the reminder I have written it down in my holley notes and the recall date was only in relation to the zinc made carbs and not any aluminum as it was from a bad batch of zinc casting that was not made to spec. How you can tell if your street avenger or holley of the other zinc carbs made within this time period is by the stamp date on the tower. There is four digits under the model number on the choke tower.

For example if your holley said 80670-5 as an example and underneath the model number the numbers would be like this 2236. The first three digits is the day it was made and fourth digit is the years which could mean the 223 day of 2006 or 2016 etc. The date code range of the carbs that was affected happened in late 2005 and early 2006 and the following date codes would be affected.



3345-3655 and 0016-1986 which the 3345-3655 means carbs made on the 334th day of 2005 to the 365th day of 2005 and the 0016-1986 is the 1st day of 2006 to the 198th day of 2006. Those are the zinc carbs that have been affected within that range but nine times out of ten if you do buy a used carb off of ebay any of them showing up are very slim because as soon as anyone used them they pretty much went to pot and had all the issues wrong with them. In my research it was mostly the fuel bowls and metering blocks that went bad more so then the main bodies but some still did have issues with them.

Some double pumpers and stuff were affected as well but since the street avengers are the most sold carbs of holley they have the most reputation of this happening to more then any others. As long as you buy a used holley off of ebay or something as long as the date on the tower does not fall in that range then your good to go.
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